I think he means the Reverb that's going to be added to T2 in May/June 2005boogooloo1 wrote:You mean a REVERB?? Coming SOON??? Do tell!!!
FinalMix compared to?
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
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- KVRAF
- 7045 posts since 28 Apr, 2004 from france
> lunchmoney
Well, the goal of my my original post was not to trust someone instread of my ears concerning FInalMix performance.
I just wanted to share opinions, in a domain highly subjective as mastering software can be.
The fact is that i like it to "improve" my mixdown, but i am no pro sound engineer and maybe that it could have obvious lack i did not notice.
I like the fact that there are presets, but never use them the way they are (they are too "obvious" !, i hav to find "my" sound and of course i tweak until i get the result my ears want to hear !
I know that nothing, no genius software can compare to the experience of a mastering engineer, this is obvious.
But, as "FinalMix" has his own color, and doesn't sound like every mastering plugin i could have test (more bright and transparent, imo), i was wondering if except for me, it suited well for mastering in someone else's studio...
Well, the goal of my my original post was not to trust someone instread of my ears concerning FInalMix performance.
I just wanted to share opinions, in a domain highly subjective as mastering software can be.
The fact is that i like it to "improve" my mixdown, but i am no pro sound engineer and maybe that it could have obvious lack i did not notice.
I like the fact that there are presets, but never use them the way they are (they are too "obvious" !, i hav to find "my" sound and of course i tweak until i get the result my ears want to hear !
I know that nothing, no genius software can compare to the experience of a mastering engineer, this is obvious.
But, as "FinalMix" has his own color, and doesn't sound like every mastering plugin i could have test (more bright and transparent, imo), i was wondering if except for me, it suited well for mastering in someone else's studio...
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- KVRAF
- 7045 posts since 28 Apr, 2004 from france
boogooloo1
there is no problem
that's right my firts post could sound like the thousands of "what is the best plugin....around" forums in there !
But i wanted mostly to be a place to share users experiences, as i did not hear a lot about FinalMix (people talk a lot about Waves and Voxengo, but not so much about FinalMix, but I DO use FInalMix, so was wandering if I were the only on doing so on planet earth... ?)
hmm, i'm french, and my english is quite limited : what does "OT" means ?
THNAX
there is no problem
that's right my firts post could sound like the thousands of "what is the best plugin....around" forums in there !
But i wanted mostly to be a place to share users experiences, as i did not hear a lot about FinalMix (people talk a lot about Waves and Voxengo, but not so much about FinalMix, but I DO use FInalMix, so was wandering if I were the only on doing so on planet earth... ?)
hmm, i'm french, and my english is quite limited : what does "OT" means ?
THNAX
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- KVRAF
- 3971 posts since 19 Apr, 2005 from Brissie
Off Topic
Your English is about 10000000 times better than my French!
... and you're quite right about the lack of FinalMix reviews - I can't do one, because I haven't used it yet...
Your English is about 10000000 times better than my French!
... and you're quite right about the lack of FinalMix reviews - I can't do one, because I haven't used it yet...
I've joined Lurkers Anonymous.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
I've tried some of the Waves stuff, and I ran the Ozone demo too. To my ears I think that Final Mix is capable of some great results, although I didn't find it particularly intuitive to use. I think it is a major draw with Tracktion though - certainly a world-class plug that deserves wider acclaim 
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
yeah ... the mackie marketing machine ought to make more of the bundled mackie / acuma plugins i reckon ... theyre ALL (both those already in there and (therefore presumably) those still to come) of a VERY high quality and certainly add VAST amounts to T2s VFM ...
slainte
rob
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
you know... i've been tooling around with final mix lately and i must say, i was terribly wrong about the quality of this product. this plugin is fantastic! i had a chance to work it into a mix (on a whim) and decided to keep it. i not only kept it, lol, i bailed on the use of my waves Rcomp and Q10!!!!
i don't know if this is going to render my opinion of my waves stuff useless or not, but ill tell you what.. after actually having used this on a more "serious" (if my previous clients could see me now) project, i deem this plugin to be of equal if not superior in stature to the comps and eq's that waves has tossed at us in the last few years.
so.. my apologies to anyone in here that i may have steeredin the wrong direction or offended by not doing my homework. i can't believe i never noticed that plugin's depth and usefuless before this. its crazy!
its kinda like the betabugs stuff, all of those plugins are in rotation with my current setup. i love my waves plugs and i love my betabugs plugs. i also love my mda plugs. they're all very nice and you know...sometimes i just comes down to which one sounds better on a particular mix.
im slowly learning here, that a free plugin can sometimes surpass a $400 plugin, in quality. and that's scary to me because, i paid alot for my waves, but a few of my free finds have already nudged the waves stuff out of rotation.
the W1 thing from betabugs for instance... i use it alot more than im using the waves stuff right now.
the monsta chorus.. i use that much more than enigma or mondo mod by waves..
im using the final mix eq alot more now. im actually finding the dynamics section on the final mix plug to be useful.. mainly because it's attached to the eq.. but it's very nice. it's heavy cpu plug, much more so than the waves stuff (which i find i can use almost as frequently as i like on as many tracks as it takes (up to around 20 tracks) on a basic local rock band, which never really gets to be over 20 tracks at any one time, unless they want to do alot of guitar overdubs and vocal reworks...
...sigh...
i should learn to keep my mouth shut until i get a chance to put a plugin to work in a real world situation. i learned a powerful lesson here.. and that would be "shut your mouth until you have facts to speak"..
so, my apologies to the thread and the readers for my mistakes in judgement.
thank you for your time. and as far as that goes, thanks for the opportunity to review my writings through the eyes of some of my more brilliant aquaintances online and to actually have learned something in the process.
hope i made some sense this time.
i don't know if this is going to render my opinion of my waves stuff useless or not, but ill tell you what.. after actually having used this on a more "serious" (if my previous clients could see me now) project, i deem this plugin to be of equal if not superior in stature to the comps and eq's that waves has tossed at us in the last few years.
so.. my apologies to anyone in here that i may have steeredin the wrong direction or offended by not doing my homework. i can't believe i never noticed that plugin's depth and usefuless before this. its crazy!
its kinda like the betabugs stuff, all of those plugins are in rotation with my current setup. i love my waves plugs and i love my betabugs plugs. i also love my mda plugs. they're all very nice and you know...sometimes i just comes down to which one sounds better on a particular mix.
im slowly learning here, that a free plugin can sometimes surpass a $400 plugin, in quality. and that's scary to me because, i paid alot for my waves, but a few of my free finds have already nudged the waves stuff out of rotation.
the W1 thing from betabugs for instance... i use it alot more than im using the waves stuff right now.
the monsta chorus.. i use that much more than enigma or mondo mod by waves..
im using the final mix eq alot more now. im actually finding the dynamics section on the final mix plug to be useful.. mainly because it's attached to the eq.. but it's very nice. it's heavy cpu plug, much more so than the waves stuff (which i find i can use almost as frequently as i like on as many tracks as it takes (up to around 20 tracks) on a basic local rock band, which never really gets to be over 20 tracks at any one time, unless they want to do alot of guitar overdubs and vocal reworks...
...sigh...
i should learn to keep my mouth shut until i get a chance to put a plugin to work in a real world situation. i learned a powerful lesson here.. and that would be "shut your mouth until you have facts to speak"..
so, my apologies to the thread and the readers for my mistakes in judgement.
thank you for your time. and as far as that goes, thanks for the opportunity to review my writings through the eyes of some of my more brilliant aquaintances online and to actually have learned something in the process.
hope i made some sense this time.
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- KVRAF
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
oh! and since i found voxengo boogex and that "tube baby" plugin, i have taken amplitube of my pc.
as far as t-racks goes, i don't find it useful any longer. it's sitting in an old box of cds on the shelf in the back of studio z...
im finding that hype does not mean quality. what does mean quality, to me, is this: how useful do you actually find the object to be. how much cpu does it use in relation to how useful it is to your work? is it something that you find easy to use? does it sound good?
if you're getting this from a plugin, then you're good to go. if not, don't waste time. go buy the time tested products. but beware that some of them are being beaten out by free plugins... it's a heavy thought, but one worthy of note.
as far as t-racks goes, i don't find it useful any longer. it's sitting in an old box of cds on the shelf in the back of studio z...
im finding that hype does not mean quality. what does mean quality, to me, is this: how useful do you actually find the object to be. how much cpu does it use in relation to how useful it is to your work? is it something that you find easy to use? does it sound good?
if you're getting this from a plugin, then you're good to go. if not, don't waste time. go buy the time tested products. but beware that some of them are being beaten out by free plugins... it's a heavy thought, but one worthy of note.
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- KVRist
- 173 posts since 14 Apr, 2005 from Sweden
Final Mix is truly wonderful! The only downside is the CPU-usage. That´s why I don´t use it on individual tracks as often as I would like...
My opinion is that the T-racks compressor is especially good for electric bass, but for drums the Mackie comps are truly amazing to work with...
My opinion is that the T-racks compressor is especially good for electric bass, but for drums the Mackie comps are truly amazing to work with...
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
That's two stunning posts there Lee
Having spent a significant chunck of my summer holiday testing out demos of many of the big-gun audio effects, I must agree with you that many are over-hyped. In fact, I would go so far as to humbly suggest that many of them are quite simply a waste of money
Testing suff back to back I found that in most cases, the bundled plugs that come with my main host were *nearly* as good for my needs and to my ears as many of the most expensive plugins available...(if tweaked carefully to meet my needs/taste) ... and I already own them! The only thing I did conclude in favour of Waves, for example, is that they offer a level of *transparency* that some recording musicians might want from a Pro studio in order to preserve their own *sound*. FOr me, though, that is not a relevant consideration, as I am a home musician producing my own music.
I would recommend only looking for additional plugs if you are certain that a specific bundled plugin doesn't meet your need! I don't especially like the reverb that comes bundled with my main host, so I extensively tested some alternatives next to each other on the same material, including expensive ones like the Waves RVerb, the Wizooverb, etc.
An interesting thing I found is that when I simply used the presets as a way of testing I came to *certain conclusions*... but later I spent more time fiddling with the controls and came to quite different conclusions! Clearly, taking longer to learn what any plugin is really capable of is wsorth doing.
I think that in the past I have demo'ed stuff and drawn sputious conclusions simply because I have been lazy and not looked beyond the most superficial looks and initial sounds. Let's face it, we're all busy people, and its natural to assume that the more expensive a plugin is, the better it must therefore be. I agree with you that this is not necessarily the case at all. And I'm sure that I too have given misleading advice at times, based on my own limited experiences. That must inevitably be true of just about all of us here.
So why do so many people fork out for this stuff? Is it just like "The Emperor's New Clothes" in the sense that nobody wants to admit that paying a fortune for a fairly ordinary compressor isn't usually justified?
Regarding the BetaBugs plugs, incidentally, I must confess that I have not tried out any of them before. So I just headed over to their site and downloaded the pack of all of them, ready to look at later. I like the philosophy they write about keeping things simple
I have previously tested the W1 in its original non-GUI form. Is the BetaBugs version completely identical in terms of sound quality and features, but simply with a new GUI?
Having spent a significant chunck of my summer holiday testing out demos of many of the big-gun audio effects, I must agree with you that many are over-hyped. In fact, I would go so far as to humbly suggest that many of them are quite simply a waste of money
Testing suff back to back I found that in most cases, the bundled plugs that come with my main host were *nearly* as good for my needs and to my ears as many of the most expensive plugins available...(if tweaked carefully to meet my needs/taste) ... and I already own them! The only thing I did conclude in favour of Waves, for example, is that they offer a level of *transparency* that some recording musicians might want from a Pro studio in order to preserve their own *sound*. FOr me, though, that is not a relevant consideration, as I am a home musician producing my own music.
I would recommend only looking for additional plugs if you are certain that a specific bundled plugin doesn't meet your need! I don't especially like the reverb that comes bundled with my main host, so I extensively tested some alternatives next to each other on the same material, including expensive ones like the Waves RVerb, the Wizooverb, etc.
An interesting thing I found is that when I simply used the presets as a way of testing I came to *certain conclusions*... but later I spent more time fiddling with the controls and came to quite different conclusions! Clearly, taking longer to learn what any plugin is really capable of is wsorth doing.
I think that in the past I have demo'ed stuff and drawn sputious conclusions simply because I have been lazy and not looked beyond the most superficial looks and initial sounds. Let's face it, we're all busy people, and its natural to assume that the more expensive a plugin is, the better it must therefore be. I agree with you that this is not necessarily the case at all. And I'm sure that I too have given misleading advice at times, based on my own limited experiences. That must inevitably be true of just about all of us here.
So why do so many people fork out for this stuff? Is it just like "The Emperor's New Clothes" in the sense that nobody wants to admit that paying a fortune for a fairly ordinary compressor isn't usually justified?
Regarding the BetaBugs plugs, incidentally, I must confess that I have not tried out any of them before. So I just headed over to their site and downloaded the pack of all of them, ready to look at later. I like the philosophy they write about keeping things simple
I have previously tested the W1 in its original non-GUI form. Is the BetaBugs version completely identical in terms of sound quality and features, but simply with a new GUI?
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- KVRian
- 1272 posts since 11 Apr, 2002 from Nashville, TN
yes but when you don't know what you are doing like me, it's nice that there are SO MANY presets...
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Wowee! A fun thread, peppered with praise for BBA. I like it.
The BetabugsAudio W1 is identical to the non-GUI one, which is why on the first page of the manual and throughout, we try our best to make it clear that it is George Yohng's W1 Limiter, with GUI by BetabugsAudio. To "out" myself, I have to confess that I actually still use the non-GUI version rather than the BBA version because the numbers on the non-GUI readout come in handy for me. The GUI was introduced mainly to hopefully bring more exposure to George's excellent work, and for people who either i) can't stand the way their host shows non-GUI plugs; or ii) haven't given a chance to the plug because of its non-GUI status.
I think we accomplished that goal, as the W1 is being used by new people in addition to the people who used it in its original form.
I use the BBA plugs quite often, in particular the MonstaChorus and the Widebug. I've simply not found a better "bread and butter" chorus plug-in at ANY price than Monsta. Moneo is one of our coolest little plug-ins, and the filters are great, too. BugPass makes it to tracks every now and then, and SpinBug is just the tool needed for certain tracks.
Sorry to go OT, but I love my BBA brethren and I really do find our stuff fills a lot of holes in my personal needs.
Glad you like the philosophy page.
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363 - KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
Just a humble opinion: FinalMix is a very effective, very useable and "pro" (whatever THAT means) plugin and I find myself using it about as much as I use my Voxengo plugins (ie. all the time).
No one size fits all, so I end up using just about everything I own effect-wise when I'm mastering stuff at home (no money to have someone else do it, plus I'm just a hobbyist so why bother?). I have no complaints about FinalMix, it's decent on CPU on my little 3GHz. P4.
No one size fits all, so I end up using just about everything I own effect-wise when I'm mastering stuff at home (no money to have someone else do it, plus I'm just a hobbyist so why bother?). I have no complaints about FinalMix, it's decent on CPU on my little 3GHz. P4.
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.