Software has NEVER ACHIEVED Decent Guitar Distortion. Nope.

[Lunch Money]

Heh. You'll discover that I slightly edited my post... but the quoted part stands.

Sims: Miami Vacation.

[guitarzan]

..the ultimate goal for me is to get out of here oneday and to a place where I can buy a whisper room...the I could use it for vox, acoustic and mic'ing an amp

Yeah, I'm going to keep using sofware exclusively until I can have some kind of room like that, because even load boxes and all that crap on a real amp doesn't sound as good as a digital sim can, IMO. Even if I could mic my amps I would still want to layer with software amps sometimes...why not, more amps!!!

[Hink]

..the ultimate goal for me is to get out of here oneday and to a place where I can buy a whisper room...the I could use it for vox, acoustic and mic'ing an amp

Yeah, I'm going to keep using sofware exclusively until I can have some kind of room like that, because even load boxes and all that crap on a real amp doesn't sound as good as a digital sim can, IMO. Even if I could mic my amps I would still want to layer with software amps sometimes...why not, more amps!!!

Oh I agree, I still hang onto my sansamp (that I have brought back from the dead twice now), remember oneday the POD will be a classic...

[Empty Uranus]

THe funny thing Empty Uranus is this, I totally agree with you, I will always mic my amps, it is just what I like, I have tried and tried to get a good sim tone, just to do it basically. I mean I was pretty happy with that tone I got a few pages back here, but I haven even gone back to it, I still play live with an amp and always will and I have spent a chunk of change in good mics, cabs, mic pre's etc. But the "funny" part although it is not really LOL funny is the same people have been talking about this for so long. HINK , lunch money Sascha, and the list goes on, Everyone is pretty set in there ways, I.E Hink has ben telling me since day one that I haven't been open enough and IM to close minded and the fact I have had the same rig for over 10 years proves his point. (Hink I aint attacking you or anything, hopefully we have been thru enough were you can understand Im just trying to make a point, nothing more nothing less.) And my point is I think your tone is good, I like my tone all mic'ed as well, but as much as I crap on sims, I do still try out EVERYONE there is. WHY? Becasue essentially it is a FREE amp, well the free ones that is, And if one kicks ass then it is basically a tremondous gift no doubt. I think the JCM 900 is a gift. But just so you know since you are relatively new around here(empty Uranus) you will continued to be steered towards sims by many of these folks, and some like me, Sascha (i think) will always be on the side of real amps, and mics as old as they may be and lack technology is the absolute essential way to record guitar. BUtit is always a good debate usually and FUN. I tried to stay away from this forum but I love guitar and couldnt help but come back for another!! sim debate.

The fact is some sims are getting good and with some help they are damn close.. Its all good. Hows that HInk,. I went from total against sims to some leniency towards their quality... I may be cracking?




















Nah maybe a percentage point..

Good post. I'll tell ya - when I finally hear a sim sound better than my amp, I'll use it exclusively from then on. I will still be using some of them for just different sounds (though I've had this old Boogie so long, I've finally figured out how to make it cough up just about anything)...

I still like to look at it from this point. If I record an original, I'd like to be able to pretty acurately reproduce it live. Some of these folks will not (in their wildest dreams) be able to do that. Maybe I've listened to the Allman Brothers Band Live at Fillmore East 1,400,204 times too many.

I've got to admit this, though. It IS much fun to start dl'ing these things and trying them out. I feel like a kid in a free candy store.


PS: I'm with Hink - show me some of that Vox Brian May sound. Ace the old EVH sound. Now THAT would be impressive.

[Hink]

no when I said listen to Brian May I meant listen to him...I mean I can hear his tone anytime I want...I want to listen t him. I imagine it would be quite riveting, he is quite intelligent. I'd be contenet just to ask a few questions and listen to what he has to say....

[Empty Uranus]

no when I said listen to Brian May I meant listen to him...I mean I can hear his tone anytime I want...I want to listen t him. I imagine it would be quite riveting, he is quite intelligent. I'd be contenet just to ask a few questions and listen to what he has to say....

You know - so many people look at me with a strange look when I say "you'd never believe how much the sound has to do with the way you hold your pick"..... He's a prime example.

Shhhhhhhh - don't let that get out.

[hibidy]

UA solo 610 into gap (logic pro)

expensive.......but very nice indeed!

[hibidy]

Oh, and yes, the pick thing is golden

[guitarzan]

..the ultimate goal for me is to get out of here oneday and to a place where I can buy a whisper room...the I could use it for vox, acoustic and mic'ing an amp

Yeah, I'm going to keep using sofware exclusively until I can have some kind of room like that, because even load boxes and all that crap on a real amp doesn't sound as good as a digital sim can, IMO. Even if I could mic my amps I would still want to layer with software amps sometimes...why not, more amps!!!

Oh I agree, I still hang onto my sansamp (that I have brought back from the dead twice now), remember oneday the POD will be a classic...

Oh, yeah, I guess I really meant I'll just stick with DI guitar for now, until I'm somewhere I can make a noise again, not so much the "software exclusively" thing.

I just sold the POD Pro I bought new, but I hung onto a special edition chrome plated POD 2.0 I bought on eBay a few years back, and I still have my Yamaha DG Stomp. They kinda go together, the Yamaha is almost too crisp and edgey and the POD is mid heavy but has pretty good speaker and cab sim, and the air thing. Plus I'm pretty sure the DG Stomp can send MIDI to the POD so I thought I'd put together a cool little living room jam session amp using those mixed into a tiny Stewart 50 watt/channel power amp that I have - then into a pair of Minimus 7's. Should be good for anything from whisper level to "pretty damn loud for such a tiny box!"

Also, I still have some tube pedals, tube preamps, and a bunch of overdrive/distortion/fuzz boxes that I want to try running into Boogex or some other speaker sim VSTs.
Now there is some software that really needs to be developed - a high quality dynamic speaker/cab/mic emulator!

I have tried running tube stuff into the computer before and it was too noisey, like a telegraph line! I guess there must be a way to deal with it, though.

[Trevor Jackson]

Don't buy a whisper room. Insiders say the only way it reduces the sound is if you whisper. Imagine your frustration after you spend three grand and you can still here the f**king cars...

I once built an excellent sound booth out of closet doors that was AT LEAST as effective as a whisper room.

Remember: Density means very little for sound attenuation. The trick is to have one surface - and then another surface close to it but not touching. So, for instance, two layers of closet doors propped into a corner of a room. You'd be amazed what some careful thinking and a trip to the hardware store will do.

Note: You need AT LEAST four feet of open space to record a bass amp (because of the length of the sound waves).

And remember: cardboard is your best friend for the homemade sound booth.

[Lunch Money]

Once again I have to agree but also disagree. I don't really think that cardboard is particularly good for sound damping. On the other hand, you're bang-on about the "room within a room" for soundproofing.

Greg

[Empty Uranus]

Don't buy a whisper room. Insiders say the only way it reduces the sound is if you whisper. Imagine your frustration after you spend three grand and you can still here the f**king cars...

I once built an excellent sound booth out of closet doors that was AT LEAST as effective as a whisper room.

Remember: Density means very little for sound attenuation. The trick is to have one surface - and then another surface close to it but not touching. So, for instance, two layers of closet doors propped into a corner of a room. You'd be amazed what some careful thinking and a trip to the hardware store will do.

Note: You need AT LEAST four feet of open space to record a bass amp (because of the length of the sound waves).

And remember: cardboard is your best friend for the homemade sound booth.

Hmmmmm. Thanks for those tidbits. I might give that a shot. I'm in a 14x12 Mississippi Pine rooms that's not perfect, but not too bad. Still - I'd like to deaden it some. If I don't return here, it might mean that my wife tore my fingers off, canceling my ability to type.

PS: On a side note - I'm very impressed with the Helian Bass VST. In fact, I'm using it on everything right now. It's a lot easier to get a decent bass sound than a hard/distorted sound on the guitar, but that little hombre definitely adds some gnads to the bass.

[Hink]

no when I said listen to Brian May I meant listen to him...I mean I can hear his tone anytime I want...I want to listen t him. I imagine it would be quite riveting, he is quite intelligent. I'd be contenet just to ask a few questions and listen to what he has to say....

You know - so many people look at me with a strange look when I say "you'd never believe how much the sound has to do with the way you hold your pick"..... He's a prime example.

Shhhhhhhh - don't let that get out.

actually Brian May was the inspiration behind my making brass picks, which I use less than 50% of the time.



I tried different coins including a penny (which I figured was the U.S. equivalent of what he uses)...however I dont think there is a universal "right" way to hold a pick. That's not saying that I do not agree with you, I'm just saying that varies a lot from one person to another, and from one style to another. For me picking is done with extreme finesse, but I also feel it's one of the most important parts of playing. How you attack the strings and where you attack them are quite important. But not always how you hold the pick, many players don't even use a pick. I worked very hard many, many years ago to learn to squeal without a pick...it's amazing how that strengthened my ability to do squeals with the pick.

In some ways the guitar is this extremely precise instrument and in other ways it's totally an illogical sloppy instrument. Picking laterally along the strings you find that it doesn't take much distance in either direction to make large tonal changes (and pitch changes with pinching out the squeals). How you hold the pick is should be based on what works best for you (ever see how EVH holds a pick?) Myself I grip the pick very close to the tip most of the time and expose more of the tip when needed. However, the pick is only a small part of it...of course there is palm muting which kind of obvious to begin with. But also what else you're doing with your picking hand can create interesting tones.

Like for example, it's easy to know where the natural harmonics lie across the neck and you have frets to mark where they are. But those natural harmonics can be achieved right on top of the body as well...they only thing is you have to have to memorize where...but you can't memorize by looking, it has to be by feel. I think as much dynamics (or more if you're good at it) comes from just that...how you attack the strings and where. Many guitarists I have played with pick at the same spot all the time...in fact you can see it on their strings and sometimes the bodies as well. Myself I am equally adept at picking anywhere between about the 17th fret back to up tight against the bridge and my right hand travels between yhe end of the neck and the bridge.

Picking on the neck is reserved for specific circumstances, but is a cool technique. For instance in some tunings bending the higher strings together two at a time and picking, fingering and bending fast on the neck (which means following the strings as you bend) creates some incredible tones. Also, countering the pick direction on a single string with finger vibrato (picking on the neck) creates some nice sounds as well as speed illusions...the former (bending two strings together while picking on the neck) is a technique I picked watching and listening to Gary Moore...done proper it's over the top but sounds great, done poorly it's nothing but string masturbation. Of course there are times when picking further down the neck is cool too.

Another cool technique is to train you middle and ring finger (the pinky I usually reserve for the volume knob) for the "way over done" tapping. You won't find many examples of me tapping in the tradition sense. Instead I like very slow taps combined with fairly deep bends (again it means following the string with your tapping finger), it creates an inside out kind of feel (the end of my song Plight of a dreamer as it fades has this).

so please forgive when I say

you'd never believe how much the sound has to do with the way you hold your pick

is very accurate but also very generalized and a tad bit of a simplistic explanation, there's just far more to picking than just the grip. Often I find that many teachers do not teach the value of the right hand enough...we wont even get into the principles and benefits of back picking, and what back picking can do to change the mood of a chord or a composition.



FWIW I can whip out examples of these techniques at will if anyone is confused I'll gladly post up some examples.

[Hink]

Don't buy a whisper room. Insiders say the only way it reduces the sound is if you whisper. Imagine your frustration after you spend three grand and you can still here the f**king cars...

I once built an excellent sound booth out of closet doors that was AT LEAST as effective as a whisper room.

Remember: Density means very little for sound attenuation. The trick is to have one surface - and then another surface close to it but not touching. So, for instance, two layers of closet doors propped into a corner of a room. You'd be amazed what some careful thinking and a trip to the hardware store will do.

Note: You need AT LEAST four feet of open space to record a bass amp (because of the length of the sound waves).

And remember: cardboard is your best friend for the homemade sound booth.

Have you tried a whisper room? I have been in one and no it doesn't block out all the sound from going out, but it does block enough for the project musician...however they are quite good at keeping outside noise out. I was going to build a closet/sound booth a few years ago...I was going to build racks for the clothes on wheels so it could double as a closet and then also be a sound booth. I didn't because a couple of snags came along the way...the biggest being proper ventilation (remeber if it's sealed good enough to stop a lot of sound from coming and going than you might not get air). A fan in the room would defeat the purpose of the room. The only practical method for building a venilation system I came up with was to use two cheapy motorcycle mufflers (one in and one out) with fans on the outside portion of each to force the air through (as is common knowledge ventilation ducts areoften excellent transmitters of sound)...I actually have studied a bit on soundproofing (not just conditioning, which in large room is more important than a small booth) and watched the progress of a friend who built a killer studio...the rooms construction alone was over 20k. 4 feet is a bit extreme, but I wont get into that, a room within a room is proper (the ceiling and floor are the bigger areas of concern there). I never said I was looking to record a bass in a booth...in fact I never would...stopping bass requires much, much more.

But recording bass direct is a time proven method that works quite well...I don't play drums so I can't see the need for worrying about that and the size room I would get it would not be possible. But for mic'ing up a cab or doing vocals a whisper room works very well, though they are exspensive and portable. As for cardboard I have to strongly disagree, though it might have a lot to do with where you are using it. It's far too vunerable to climate and the elements around it for me...I could never see that as a viable method for a soundbooth, sorry...but simple humidity changes can create issues.

A whisper room is not perfect, but it is a very good solution for my needs...

[Hink]

btw, the most common mistake is over-foaming a booth or room...