Is the Virtual Instrument era over?

[tony10000]

Hasten the demise of VI? Pulease, absolute nonsense.

Urs said that VCs would hasten the DEMISE OF VIs? You’re shitting me, really?

Urs' comment:

"My opinion is that currently we see a backslap from the previous "gold rush". Even before the pandemic, some companies got boosted with stupid amounts of venture capital, often for something that's IMHO not viable (like, the subscription fad). So now these companies shrink back or consolidate in other forms. So yeah, there's vacuum as result of greed and fast money, reflected by fewer releases and stagnation of very visible brands.

"However, the way I see it, companies like Tone2 or us who refused to play those silly games will simply continue, and if the market declines, we have that vacuum to fill as a buffer. If I wasn't under NDA I could give an astonishing example of how those imploding companies gasp for air and literally offer us to fill the void they left."

I see. You completely misinterpreted what he said. Thanks for sharing the actual quote.

VIs are not disappearing as they are not being replaced by anything.

Maybe the market is saturated so some companies will disappear. Maybe austerity and world problems will mean fewer hobbyists (for a while) spending cash on virtual toys.

But ‘demise of VIs?’ Nope.

It is the end of VI's as we know them (especially synths).

I don't see any new Zebras, Divas or Serums on the horizon. The last epic VI synths that I can recall are Phase Plant, Pigments, Surge, and Vital. And Vital and Surge are freebies.

Sampled instruments will do fine because they are relatively cheap and easy to make and the platforms have already been built.

Also, I never said they are "disappearing". Straw man. The hundreds that I own will probably run just fine for the forseeable future.

[tony10000]

Hasten the demise of VI? Pulease, absolute nonsense.

Urs said that VCs would hasten the DEMISE OF VIs? You’re shitting me, really?

Urs' comment:

"My opinion is that currently we see a backslap from the previous "gold rush". Even before the pandemic, some companies got boosted with stupid amounts of venture capital, often for something that's IMHO not viable (like, the subscription fad). So now these companies shrink back or consolidate in other forms. So yeah, there's vacuum as result of greed and fast money, reflected by fewer releases and stagnation of very visible brands.

"However, the way I see it, companies like Tone2 or us who refused to play those silly games will simply continue, and if the market declines, we have that vacuum to fill as a buffer. If I wasn't under NDA I could give an astonishing example of how those imploding companies gasp for air and literally offer us to fill the void they left."

I see. You completely misinterpreted what he said. Thanks for sharing the actual quote.

VIs are not disappearing as they are not being replaced by anything.

Maybe the market is saturated so some companies will disappear. Maybe austerity and world problems will mean fewer hobbyists (for a while) spending cash on virtual toys.

But ‘demise of VIs?’ Nope.

This ^

Honestly, Tony, it's starting to appear that you are being purposefully myopic just to continue this zombie thread's stumbling gait. You can't list out your professional pedigree and then so obviously purposefully misinterpret such a plainly written quote. It's just gauche. Please. Stop. I can't even bring myself to type the equally obvious and valid counter. It's just dumb.

Almost 10K views and counting...LOL!

[revvy]

Straw man

Nonsense. You referred to their demise. This whole thread is based on your false initial premise.

See your reply above this. You live for clicks.

[tony10000]

Straw man

Nonsense. You referred to their demise. This whole thread is based on your false initial premise.

See your reply above this. You live for clicks.

Definition of the word "demise":

a: DEATH
b: a cessation of existence or activity
c: a loss of position or status
2: the conveyance of an estate
3: transfer of the sovereignty to a successor

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demise

I am NOT using definition A or B. I am using definition C. Does that clarify things?

[tony10000]

Straw man

Nonsense. You referred to their demise. This whole thread is based on your false initial premise.

See your reply above this. You live for clicks.

Also, if my comments in this thread trouble you, just keep scrolling. Plenty of other topics on KVR!

[revvy]

I am NOT using definition A or B. I am using definition C

Tony, please stop, you’re killing me man. It’s like living in a vintage Monty Python sketch.

I promise, I’ll leave you in peace now.

[jules99]

I don't see any new Zebras, Divas or Serums on the horizon. The last epic VI synths that I can recall are Phase Plant, Pigments, Surge, and Vital. And Vital and Surge are freebies.

- Omnisphere 2 - released in 2015, last update October 2021

- Serum - released in 2014, last update October 2022

- Zebra 2 - released in 2012, last update August 2021

- Diva - released 2011, last update August 2021

- Phase Plant 2 - released June 2022, last update October 2022

- Pigments 3.5 - released December 2021, last update June 2022

- Surge XT - released 2022, last update August 2022

- Vital - released in November 2020, last update May 2022


Innovative instruments like Generate (2020) or Novum (2022) showing entirely new sounds are possible. Bundles like Komplete or V Collection emulating or sampling more and more instruments. VIs are alive and well. And Vital and Surge, despite being freeware, see eye-to-eye with Diva, Phase Plant or Pigments. Not sure why them being "freebies" makes them any less of complex virtual instruments.

[BBFG#]

From what I can search for them,
Korg Wavestate Native / Opsix Native were released about March, 2022?

[_leras]

No, the virtual instrument era is not over.

Though I believe we are well past the peak...

Barely getting started if you ask me.

[BONES]

Yeah, there's tonnes of new stuff. You just need the will to go looking for it.

Some of us have standards

What standards? Surely all you want to do is make good music? You can do that with a kazoo if you have a good enough idea. It seems to me you have built a rod for you own back and now you're complaining that it hurts.

... and yet don't have 10s of thousands to hire a Symphony Orchestra every single time we want to create orchestral music and don't want to settle with a JV-1080 flute patch and no, audiences today generally don't either.

Audiences don't care and they sure as shit don't know the difference 99% of the time. But if Vibrators could afford to hire the Berlin Symphonia, surely you can find an orchestra at a price that works for you?

The next step, and one that there there has been little in the way of effort to make, is to improve their playability and usability.

I'd suggest that is likely because most people don't see the need. I sure as hell don't, Heavyocity's Novo Strings work perfectly well for our needs, for example, and if the song in your signature is typical of what you want to do, it would do you, too.

Did I ever say that I haven't? Are you going to pay upward of 10k every time, though?

Try your local high school or conservatorium, you might be able to do a deal.

I do hire live players in select situations. That doesn't invalidate my point about VI's, however.

I don't think anyone thought your point was valid in the first place.

Yeah, that's why companies like Spitfire, Native Instruments and Orchestral Tools are multi-million-dollar companies.

Perfect example - they get to be multi-million dollar companies by giving people what they want, not by listening to every nut-bag with a complaint.

Sorry, but it's painfully obvious that despite allegedly having 40 years experience in music, you're really quite ignorant about what is, outside of the electronic music sphere, referred to as "virtual instruments".

Sure, whatever. Nomenclature is irrelevant.

So maybe try being a bit more humble?

What, and start pumping out sad little Miami Vice tunes? No, thanks. There's a certain arrogance that goes with being a rock star that makes it work.

Looks like big companies funded by venture capitalists and "investment partners" will hasten the demise of virtual instruments. Urs alluded to this in his post.

C'mon! They've been virtually giving these things away for years now. I think I paid $5 for Iris and $10 for Trash. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to turn off the life support.

I don't see any new Zebras, Divas or Serums on the horizon.

First of all, Urs has stated in this very thread that they are working on the new Zebra, so you need to look harder. Second, I'd suggest Vital probably fulfills the role of a new Serum, along with half-a-dozen other similar synths already out there. How many more can we possibly need? As for Diva, the one thing you can rely on is that more emulations are just around the corner.

The last epic VI synths that I can recall are Phase Plant, Pigments, Surge, and Vital. And Vital and Surge are freebies.

PhasePlant is only a couple of years old (maybe three), Vital is only a year or so old and Pigments just got another big update, didn't it? What more do you want?

Sampled instruments will do fine because they are relatively cheap and easy to make and the platforms have already been built.

I don't think that's true and, if it is, we are all getting ripped off because they are not cheap.

[Chr!s]

There's a certain arrogance that goes with being a rock star that makes it work.

[donkey tugger]

[tony10000]

I don't see any new Zebras, Divas or Serums on the horizon. The last epic VI synths that I can recall are Phase Plant, Pigments, Surge, and Vital. And Vital and Surge are freebies.

- Omnisphere 2 - released in 2015, last update October 2021

- Serum - released in 2014, last update October 2022

- Zebra 2 - released in 2012, last update August 2021

- Diva - released 2011, last update August 2021

- Phase Plant 2 - released June 2022, last update October 2022

- Pigments 3.5 - released December 2021, last update June 2022

- Surge XT - released 2022, last update August 2022

- Vital - released in November 2020, last update May 2022


Innovative instruments like Generate (2020) or Novum (2022) showing entirely new sounds are possible. Bundles like Komplete or V Collection emulating or sampling more and more instruments. VIs are alive and well. And Vital and Surge, despite being freeware, see eye-to-eye with Diva, Phase Plant or Pigments. Not sure why them being "freebies" makes them any less of complex virtual instruments.

You are making my point. The majority of those above are updates of existing synths (devs want to keep customers happy). Generate is interesting for certain genres. I have the free version (Pendulate). As for Novum, I mentioned Tracktion as one of the two companies that are regularly releasing new synths (the other one is Cherry). I don't see much discussion of Tracktion synths, so I don't think they are that popular. The only ones I own are Biotek and Biotek 2. I would also add Vaporizer 2 to the list. I just picked that one up for under $30.

[tony10000]

C'mon! They've been virtually giving these things away for years now. I think I paid $5 for Iris and $10 for Trash. I'm surprised it's taken them this long to turn off the life support.

That is indicative of a saturated market. That is why developers would rather spend their time making something else.

First of all, Urs has stated in this very thread that they are working on the new Zebra, so you need to look harder. Second, I'd suggest Vital probably fulfills the role of a new Serum, along with half-a-dozen other similar synths already out there. How many more can we possibly need? As for Diva, the one thing you can rely on is that more emulations are just around the corner.

I mentioned the synths that are in the late 2.x stage and are awaiting 3.x updates. They are Zebra, Synthmaster, and Avenger. But these are existing platforms, not new ones and development has been glacial.

As for Vital, I am not sure how the dev is making any $$$ since he is basically giving it away. Perhaps open source synths will be the future of innovation in VIs because there isn't much in the way of financial incentives to make devs want to create any new ones. I speak to small devs all the time, so I hear their stories.

PhasePlant is only a couple of years old (maybe three), Vital is only a year or so old and Pigments just got another big update, didn't it? What more do you want?

I want new and exciting synths that broaden my sonic horizons. I don't mind supporting devs that create them. I have hundreds of synths. I am retired, so I can play with them all day long.

I don't think that's true and, if it is, we are all getting ripped off because they are not cheap.

No, they are not cheap. But in many cases, they are immensely profitable. Especially compared to programming a plug in from scratch and maintaining it.

[Synthman2000]

With the AI hype, I think we will see more and more innovation as far as AI does a lot of the work / creative process. I figure it will really boil down to user experience / interface more than new mind blowing deep as hell features.

The more AI has to do with my music the less I will ever consider it. It's mine All mine mwah ha ha ha ! Seriously.. the entire point of making music for me is enjoying what I can do myself or with others if I was to choose to so. Discovery, enjoyment advancement of sonic knowledge, making mistakes and learning. AI can take a running jump. All the AI stuff I have heard or seen is complete and utter trash. It's a fad.

It's like some bad religion, new tech must be better BS. Proved wrong over and again.