SONAR X2 first look

[grymmjack]

I'm not discrediting their decisions to stay competitive, only pointing out that quite a lot of the stuff is copied or borrowed or inspired from the innovators.

in a market where Reaper exists, the notion of any other DAW being singled out on the basis that "quite a lot of the stuff is copied or borrowed or inspired from the innovators" is entirely amusing. If it werent for "copying or borrowing features from the innovators, Reaper wouldnt exist. Its probably why their development cycle has slowed down so much in he oast few years; they've run out of stuff to copy or borrow.

LOL Rabbyt, I just read that last statement (I'm a notorious reaction jumper and skimmer), and yeah you pretty much said it. REAPERS patchbay/WALTER is sweet but if we were to really nitpick, REAPER wouldn't exist without ACID first, at least that's how I perceive the chain of events.

[grymmjack]

I think so. And yes, I'm interested in it. It wasn't placebo that I could hear. I am a bit worried about the cpu consumption going up (but I don't know what they used for a computer)

One issue is that my original sonar was 3, which was mostly useless. That was 499 + tax. I'm out that! The upgrade to 8.5 was useful, not stellar, but useful. I also really enjoyed X1 at first (until I uncovered all the bugs!) but it's getting to the point of absurdity price wise unless it's gonna kick ass.

I'm a ho. I'm a gear/host ho. Yes, I have some terrific musical ideas and some know how but ho still defines me better

Serious question for CW then: did you guys build your own console emulation or did you use a 3rd party. If you used a 3rd party which one? The reason I ask, this is one of the more compelling reasons for me to consider upgrading and if you used a 3rd party it's likely that I could just purchase their plugins instead of purchasing a sonar X2 upgrade. Loaded question and if it's a trade secret, NP.

[grymmjack]

Welcome to the world of ho-dom!!!!

+1 notorious host whore here. I learned so much more by diversifying, even if I did waste a lot of time and money on the way.

[Mattox]

Pretty sure Overloud are the ones behind the new console emulation in X2.

[LawrenceF]

ALL DAWS ARE AMAZING!

They are. I concur.

I know a guy who makes a living - a living mind you, a full time job - using PT HD6. Internet forums are hardly any real measure of the relative worth of a digital workstation.

Like someone implied earlier, the sales market auto-corrects. Things that suck don't last very long on the shelf... certainly not 20+ years. There simply aren't that many gullible people with money on the planet.

I should maybe send a PM to Craig Anderton and ask him to weigh in on Sonar. It's never been anything I wanted to use but many people actually are making money with it.

[Gonga]

Didn't he do the Advanced Workshop tutorials?

[Jace-BeOS]

Brandon, as an FYI -

On top of better routing, which I think should be the next thing on the menu, other things I'd like to see in Sonar are:

5. No more MIDI tracks: Combine the separate MIDI and audio tracks for VSTi's into a "non-Simple Instrument Track" - This should let me add MIDI and audio effects, use the arpeg, change volume/pan, etc. This should be the only option for non-multi-out VSTi's.

In case you weren't aware, SONAR already has Instrument tracks which allow access to everything listed above (arp, audio FX, MIDI fx, etc.). Use the Inspector's Audio and MIDI tabs to access the audio and MIDI layers of the Instrument track.

SP

It's a kludge. I've identified a soloing bug caused by this kludge. Did anyone ever fix it? Tracks should be universal, not audio or midi or a clumsy mutant wrapper of the two with hidden odd behaviors.

[Jace-BeOS]

Beatscape is EOL (end of life).

Wasn't Beatscape just introduced like two versions ago? Or am I confusing that with another plugin? Was Beatscape the thing from Project 5?

While on that topic, we're all the Project 5 fx units updated to x64 or are they also EOL?

The frustrating thing with Cakewalk plugins includes in Sonar is how short lived they are in terms of updates. It really reduces the interest in upgrading when you use a plugin only to find it had been abandoned in future versions or still buggy and unchanged. Lots of Sonar is like that. It's like a chamber of mixed products with a slick new door.

[Seth [Cakewalk]]

Brandon, as an FYI -

On top of better routing, which I think should be the next thing on the menu, other things I'd like to see in Sonar are:

5. No more MIDI tracks: Combine the separate MIDI and audio tracks for VSTi's into a "non-Simple Instrument Track" - This should let me add MIDI and audio effects, use the arpeg, change volume/pan, etc. This should be the only option for non-multi-out VSTi's.

In case you weren't aware, SONAR already has Instrument tracks which allow access to everything listed above (arp, audio FX, MIDI fx, etc.). Use the Inspector's Audio and MIDI tabs to access the audio and MIDI layers of the Instrument track.

SP

It's a kludge. I've identified a soloing bug caused by this kludge. Did anyone ever fix it? Tracks should be universal, not audio or midi or a clumsy mutant wrapper of the two with hidden odd behaviors.

I've never seen any weirdness with soloing Instrument tracks in SONAR. Feel free to PM me if you want to send me a recipe.

SP

[Seth [Cakewalk]]

Beatscape is EOL (end of life).

Wasn't Beatscape just introduced like two versions ago? Or am I confusing that with another plugin? Was Beatscape the thing from Project 5?

Beatscape was introduced with SONAR 8 back in 2008. It was never in P5. Beatscape's 4gig content library is still included with SONAR (and is very good I should mention). We've moved forward with the Matrix View as SONAR's clip triggering option of choice.

While on that topic, we're all the Project 5 fx units updated to x64 or are they also EOL?

All of the P5 half-rack FX have been included in SONAR for a number of versions now and are all x64.

The frustrating thing with Cakewalk plugins includes in Sonar is how short lived they are in terms of updates. It really reduces the interest in upgrading when you use a plugin only to find it had been abandoned in future versions or still buggy and unchanged. Lots of Sonar is like that. It's like a chamber of mixed products with a slick new door.

FWIW, there are only a handful of plugins that were once a part of SONAR that are not longer. Additionally, any plugins that are no longer in SONAR, like Lexicon Pantheon reverb, can still be used in SONAR and even installed from the older installation disc without installing that older version of SONAR by choosing an advanced installation.

SP

[hibidy]

edit

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Brandon, as an FYI -

On top of better routing, which I think should be the next thing on the menu, other things I'd like to see in Sonar are:

5. No more MIDI tracks: Combine the separate MIDI and audio tracks for VSTi's into a "non-Simple Instrument Track" - This should let me add MIDI and audio effects, use the arpeg, change volume/pan, etc. This should be the only option for non-multi-out VSTi's.

In case you weren't aware, SONAR already has Instrument tracks which allow access to everything listed above (arp, audio FX, MIDI fx, etc.). Use the Inspector's Audio and MIDI tabs to access the audio and MIDI layers of the Instrument track.

SP

...unless it's a multi-output VSTi, at which point that paradigm completely breaks down. See how Reaper handles this for an example of how it can be improved in Sonar.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Tracks should be universal, not audio or midi or a clumsy mutant wrapper of the two with hidden odd behaviors.

This.

[Jace-BeOS]

Brandon, as an FYI -

On top of better routing, which I think should be the next thing on the menu, other things I'd like to see in Sonar are:

5. No more MIDI tracks: Combine the separate MIDI and audio tracks for VSTi's into a "non-Simple Instrument Track" - This should let me add MIDI and audio effects, use the arpeg, change volume/pan, etc. This should be the only option for non-multi-out VSTi's.

In case you weren't aware, SONAR already has Instrument tracks which allow access to everything listed above (arp, audio FX, MIDI fx, etc.). Use the Inspector's Audio and MIDI tabs to access the audio and MIDI layers of the Instrument track.

SP

It's a kludge. I've identified a soloing bug caused by this kludge. Did anyone ever fix it? Tracks should be universal, not audio or midi or a clumsy mutant wrapper of the two with hidden odd behaviors.

I've never seen any weirdness with soloing Instrument tracks in SONAR. Feel free to PM me if you want to send me a recipe.

SP

i'm not going to PM because this is public info already, and i want to see others corroborate or invalidate:

problems with mode(Mute/Solo/) grouping all tracks together..And requiring MASTER MODE: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2135835

Notice the lack of response from Cakewalk. Tech support confirmed the behavior and said that it was too late to address it in 8.5 and "maybe the developers can get to it in X1." Did they? After 9 versions of Cakewalk Sonar, i started feeling more and more like i did about having bought 7 versions of Carrara: enough is enough.

While we're at it, here are some other issues i have (the end result is that i'm not interested in Sonar any more except to export my projects to another DAW, as i have many trapped in Sonar):

VST registration problems: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2467554
Effects showing in synth rack: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2464364&high=
Copy/Paste Bugs: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2478553&high=
64bit Sonar 8.5 repeatedly hanging: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2478605

How about the Cakewalk Forum software being incompatible with Firefox? Was that ever fixed?

i also can't get ACT to do ANYTHING. Experiencing control surfaces in Reason is a dream and it's almost as nice on Logic (the DAW i may be running to). In fact, it's more Windows that i have a problem with than just Sonar. i'd probably upgrade to Sonar X2 if it were ported to Mac OS X. Right now, i'm unimpressed with the historical state of affairs in both Windows and Cakewalk products. i've been with both from near the beginning of each.

Sorry for the big pile, but i figured it's worth getting attention on the things that really have made me ripe at Sonar the last few months i used it.

[Seth [Cakewalk]]

i'm not going to PM because this is public info already, and i want to see others corroborate or invalidate:

problems with mode(Mute/Solo/) grouping all tracks together..And requiring MASTER MODE: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2135835

Notice the lack of response from Cakewalk. Tech support confirmed the behavior and said that it was too late to address it in 8.5 and "maybe the developers can get to it in X1." Did they? After 9 versions of Cakewalk Sonar, i started feeling more and more like i did about having bought 7 versions of Carrara: enough is enough.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I've never experienced solo issues with Instrument Tracks. I'll invite you again to PM me with a step by step recipe so I can try to reproduce the issue, see if its fixed, and/ or pass it off to the developers.

While we're at it, here are some other issues i have (the end result is that i'm not interested in Sonar any more except to export my projects to another DAW, as i have many trapped in Sonar):

VST registration problems: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2467554
Effects showing in synth rack: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2464364&high=
Copy/Paste Bugs: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2478553&high=
64bit Sonar 8.5 repeatedly hanging: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high= ... =1#2478605

No idea about VST reg issues or plugins showing in the Synth Rack (unless they were somehow configured as a synth).

I assume you're copy paste bugs have to do with automation? If so, those are all fixed in X2.

Granted, you're referencing bugs from 8.5 which was released three years ago, and TONS of bug fixing has happened since then, so there's a great chance these issues have been ironed out. The best way to know for sure is to PM me with step by step recipes.

How about the Cakewalk Forum software being incompatible with Firefox? Was that ever fixed?

Actually, Firefox broke compatibility with our forum software around version 5 or something, not that it has anything to do with SONAR. FWIW, I use Chrome and have zero issues with our forum.

i also can't get ACT to do ANYTHING. Experiencing control surfaces in Reason is a dream and it's almost as nice on Logic (the DAW i may be running to). In fact, it's more Windows that i have a problem with than just Sonar. i'd probably upgrade to Sonar X2 if it were ported to Mac OS X. Right now, i'm unimpressed with the historical state of affairs in both Windows and Cakewalk products. i've been with both from near the beginning of each.

Check out our ACT Get Started videos on YouTube and CakeTV. Its really not that difficult. I have it setup with multiple control surfaces and it works.