Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[Vertion]

Andy Cytomic, there is a new thread awaiting your reply.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=512525

[sqigls]

Really?
I'm pretty sure Andy could've found the thread in question without you bumping every Cytomic thread you could find.

[andy-cytomic]

I see, I intended to quote this and it did not...

Undo/Redo is planned, as is Midi Learn, program change support, and better preset browsing and searching. There are quite a few people waiting on a VST3 version, so I would like to tackle that first, but I'll see if how many of those features I can fit into the next release.

Yeah, this stuff is all still planned, but I've been spending my time having fun doing R&D to improve the efficiency and detail of Cytomic's analog modelling

Undo and redo is almost in there now, but the Juce undo / redo system is buggy in the version of Juce I'm using, so I need to either roll my own, or update to the latest Juce to fix their issues. VST3 support is also now included in Juce, so again I'll probably need to update. Better preset browsing and midi learn are still planned. A Juce update is needed, but will also introduce many new instabilities (as updates usually do), and take a month or so to manually merge and test all the fixes and addition I've made to Juce which conflict with the Juce code base. I would not like to double up on work on the undo / redo, so I may try a Juce update on a new branch and see how it goes.

Midi program change is another level of functionality on top of all that. It will require a program change table editor, and pre-caching of all presets in final binary state ready for changing of all parameters so that the daw can see the updated parameters. It is a feature I already implemented in the SH-101 white skin version of Strobe, and it was super cool to use Strobe as a drum synth where I could change presets via a step sequencer to generate all kinds of useful tones. I think this is one of the reasons why Deadmau5 still likes using this early version of Strobe, since FXpansion pulled the feature for the final release.

I think it will be a cool feature to implement for The Drop, but there may be a better approach than simple program change. It is possible to "morph" between two or more programs over time. It could be cool to use the space provided by a program change table to make it into an X-Y pad to morph between presets. There could also be a smoothing amount per program so when you transition to that program it suddenly jumps. Perhaps it will be more intuitive and traditional way would be to have a step sequencer type approach with multiple rows where you can specify speed of the sequencers and transition time between steps. I have also been considering adding another level of modulation to my plugins - a wrapper around the current plugins which offers additional lfos, envelopes, and step sequencers which would all operate at the slower "control rate", rather than "audio rate" like the current modulation built into The Drop is at. Control rate processing doesn't take much CPU, so adding this layer would not significantly change the processing required. This would allow for the types of modulation done in plugins like in Volcano 2 or Etch, neither of which offers the advanced audio rate modulation that The Drop does, but sometimes more advanced automated wobbles to the sound are preferable to smooth audio rate operation, especially for those that would prefer presets do the work for them

My current approach has been to allow for external audio input to do the modulation, so you can add extra modulators via something like Expert Sleepers Silent Way, or Motu Volta.

The modulation stuff is actually a lot easier than the R&D stuff, but I'm a bit silly sometimes in that I want to tackle the hard stuff and get that totally sorted before spending time on the easy wins! That is because for me, at the start of a plugins life, the best analog modelled DSP tone is the most important thing, and if that isn't there from the get go then it's hard to add later, but adding extra features like program support is easy to do

[dangayle]

Dude.

a) I’ve never seen anyone confirm for certainty that it was the beta Strobe plungin that Deadmau5 uses, so that’s cool.

b) Step sequenced filters are amazing, my favorite is Sinevibe’s Cluster effect

c) Sometimes I learn more from you in one comment than I learn from hours of YouTube tutorials

[dlarseninclusive]

Well said. The Drop has made a permanent spot in my setup, and I am loving The Scream. If you can track the delta between two presets and morph. That is the sickest Sh** I can think of. I am still getting to know The Drop, and out of a lot of filters its the only one that holds up to my Sherman Filterbank. And in some ways it's way, way better. Thanks for the comprehensive response, I will want to talk about this more.

[andy-cytomic]

Dude.

a) I’ve never seen anyone confirm for certainty that it was the beta Strobe plungin that Deadmau5 uses, so that’s cool.

b) Step sequenced filters are amazing, my favorite is Sinevibe’s Cluster effect

c) Sometimes I learn more from you in one comment than I learn from hours of YouTube tutorials

Thanks for this

Just a point on b), there is already an audio rate step sequencer in The Drop that can modulate both filter cutoffs, both resonances, and both pre and post gain, which are the most important things to have smooth modulation of. Adding a control rate step sequencer would be equivalent to automating parameters in a DAW, which is great for presets.

[andy-cytomic]

Well said. The Drop has made a permanent spot in my setup, and I am loving The Scream. If you can track the delta between two presets and morph. That is the sickest Sh** I can think of. I am still getting to know The Drop, and out of a lot of filters its the only one that holds up to my Sherman Filterbank. And in some ways it's way, way better. Thanks for the comprehensive response, I will want to talk about this more.

Please ask away about anything, and if you have suggestions please let me know!

I actually based my design for The Drop as a cross between the functionality of the Sherman Filterbank and the Ebbe Und Flut, but allowing multiple different filter types

[ElevatedBeing]

Sorry for being a tool and hijacking the thread, but could you please check your support email, Andy?

All good now, thanks

[andy-cytomic]

Sorry for being a tool and hijacking the thread, but could you please check your support email, Andy?

All good now, thanks

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, and thanks for being patient. Emma and I lost track and thought the other had already helped.

[Architeuthis]

I need it to be a loopable envelope with sustain level acting as the retrigger point.

I don't really know what you mean here, can you please fill in some details, perhaps draw some diagrams or give an example in some way?

You could download a demo when you feel inclined: https://www.soundemote.com/products/radar-generator# and see how an ADSR modulator works in loop mode.

I should make a video of explaining the special way this ADSR works.

[teacue]

I actually based my design for The Drop as a cross between the functionality of the Sherman Filterbank and the Ebbe Und Flut, but allowing multiple different filter types

I would never have asked this but now that you mention it yourself would you mind to tell on which functionality of the Filterbank The Drop is based?

And just out of curiosity how would you achieve something similar to the special Sync Mode of the Sherman Filterbank with The Drop?
The two filters of The Drop are different!
The HARMONICS/SYNC switch on the Filterbank syncs the two filters to specific harmonic intervals:
. equal tuning
. 1, 2, or 3 quints down
. 1, 2, 3 or 4 octaves down
. minor
. 2 semitones above 3 octaves down
. 2 semitones under 3 octaves down

[andy-cytomic]

I need it to be a loopable envelope with sustain level acting as the retrigger point.

I don't really know what you mean here, can you please fill in some details, perhaps draw some diagrams or give an example in some way?

You could download a demo when you feel inclined: https://www.soundemote.com/products/radar-generator# and see how an ADSR modulator works in loop mode.

I should make a video of explaining the special way this ADSR works.

No need for a video. I decided in The Drop to support audio rate looping envelope type shapes in LFO2, and unlike Radar Generator, these sound smooth all the way up to audio frequencies since I anti-aliased them, and they are bpm syncable.

I implemented looping envelopes a long time ago in Strobe and Cypher while working at FXpansion, I based them off analog eurorack ADSR looping functionality, and it's not hard to do, but a bit harder if you anti-alias them properly.

Well thanks for the aside, but lets get back on topic and keep this forum for discussion about The Drop!

[andy-cytomic]

I actually based my design for The Drop as a cross between the functionality of the Sherman Filterbank and the Ebbe Und Flut, but allowing multiple different filter types

I would never have asked this but now that you mention it yourself would you mind to tell on which functionality of the Filterbank The Drop is based?

And just out of curiosity how would you achieve something similar to the special Sync Mode of the Sherman Filterbank with The Drop?
The two filters of The Drop are different!
The HARMONICS/SYNC switch on the Filterbank syncs the two filters to specific harmonic intervals:
. equal tuning
. 1, 2, or 3 quints down
. 1, 2, 3 or 4 octaves down
. minor
. 2 semitones above 3 octaves down
. 2 semitones under 3 octaves down

You can tune the two filters in The Drop to any musical interval you want, then use the SHIFT knob to move them together.


From this page http://www.sherman.be/index.php/product ... k/features :

What you get (in the Sherman Filterbank):

[*] Independent low pass, band pass and high pass filters with resonance, frequency and ADSR (positive - negative) controls
[*] These are switchable between parallel or serial
[*] The second filter has a 6 octave switch, and is synchronizable with the first filter
[*] 1 ADSR generator for these filters with an external output for use with more filterbanks or modular systems, triggered by the incoming signal, by a second sounds source, or by a gate
[*] 1 FM input for the filters, internal or external audio, LFO or CV
[*] 1 VCA overdrive with AR generator also
[*] 1 ring modulator input, internal or external audio, LFO or CV

What you get in The Drop:
[*] Independent stereo high pass and low pass filters with resonance, frequency, drive, 2/4 pole, and 10 different circuits models to choose from
[*] These are switchable between parallel or serial
[*] The each filter has an over 14 octave range, and is synchronizable with the other filter via the SHIFT knob
[*] 2 AHR generators for these filters triggered by incoming signal, by a second sound source, or by a midi gate signal
[*] 1 FM input for each filter, internal or external audio, LFO, and ENV
[*] 2 VCAs, one pre filter to add drive, one clean one for post gain
[*] 2 AM (one for each VCA) from internal or external audio, LFO, and ENV
[*] 2 LFOs, the second one an advanced LFO which includes step sequencer
[*] 1 Glide circuit with keytracking
[*] Stereo spread for wide stereo sounds

I've only addressed the "key features" listed on the Sherman webpage, or course both products have loads more features, but hopefully that gets the point across. Please let me know if you want me to go into more detail

[teacue]

@andy-cytomic
Thanks a lot for your extensive answer
I will do some tests and come back here if I have more questions.

[Architeuthis]

and unlike Radar Generator, ...