KVR Audio

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:41 pm

Regarding sustain-- sim or no sim, if he was playing through an actual amplification system (ie. speakers!) the dynamics between strings and amp is restored.

There's no plug-in in the world that can increase the natural sustain of your guitar.

Hmmm...LM, you're a software developper, right? Can't an ampsim simulate sustain through an algorithm without sympathetic vibration? Is it hard to implement? You just loop the sound infinitly ( or a dicrease at given slope ) until the sound is overwriddem by a new one, or the slop is at 0.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:41 pm

kilroy wrote:You know...I'm beginning to think most of you lot would probably be just as happy with a SansAmp PSA-1.

Very responsive to dynamics, great sound, *great* analog preamp, no copy protection, straight forward interface, portable...plug in...dial a few knobs...and start feeling the luv.

I agree, one of these days I'm replacing my marshall tube pre-amp with a psa 1...however you don't even need that...imo if you cant get a good sound out of the tech 21 gt2 you need to practice some more...

Len · Post by **Len** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:44 pm

So....no audio demos, just some stupid chick, software "not ready", no real indication of pricing...first heard of 10 months ago. I think the only thing that has happened in 10 months is photographing that chick with the "modelled" boobs...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:45 pm

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:54 pm

loophead wrote:I asked the player to hit some stuff while I turned down his volume pot. 'Lets hear how dynamic this is.' I mean thats the whole point right. So what do I hear ? Zero dynamics.

Very interristing considering that the DSM technology overview sais the following:

"For example, in the real-world, all analog circuits behave differently according to the level of the signal they are driven (i.e. when driven by a signal ramp), but traditional emulation of analog circuits so far have not been capable to accurately adapt to these various conditions."

"Traditional emulation results in a distorted signal with artifacts even at low level (A), because of the limitation of current technology which is not able to dynamically adapt to the various circuitry status. On the contrary DSM emulation at low level of circuit driving is able to dynamically adapts and reproduce the signal with the same behaviour a real analog circuit would do and therefore without introducing any noticeable artifacts."

Loophead wrote:"Whats up ?" I ask. "Well that bit of the code has not been implemented yet" he tells me .... !

Weird...because if the DSM emulation engine is not yet fully complete then they have some serious time ahead...

loophead wrote:As I change the volume the sound remains exactly the same timber

Hmm...Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Somehow i am confused with this statement.

loophead wrote:Alright will this have the dongle ? "NO" he says. "NO" I ask in disbelief "are you absolutly positive ?" ...."To my knowledge it will NOT have the dongle" he replies ....

As of last friday, the decision wasn't yet finalized if the product was going to be dongle protected or not, and this is directly coming from the mouth of the product manager. They are evaluating the cost/effciency this week or so he said.

Btw loophead, maybe that guy at the booth wasn't an offcial IKMM represantative ( maybe he was only a demo guitar player) hence he didn't know how to answer your questions properly? ..just guessing because he seems to contradict what squids is saying about the software.

Len · Post by **Len** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:52 pm

24 pages of this thread, and in the meantime GR2 is available for sale on the NI website. Grrr. Because I'm a Komplete 2 owner I'm going to get Komplete 3 for peanuts and that includes GR2, but frankly I like(d?) the simplicity of Amp1 over GR1 so was looking forward to Amp2.

But since I will have GR2 by 25 Oct 2005, why would I spend more money on Amp2??? The joke of course is that the GR2 audio demos are nothing to shout about, but AT LEAST THERE ARE AUDIO DEMOS!

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:53 pm

A3ntar wrote:Hmmm...LM, you're a software developper, right? Can't an ampsim simulate sustain through an algorithm without sympathetic vibration? Is it hard to implement? You just loop the sound infinitly ( or a dicrease at given slope ) until the sound is overwriddem by a new one, or the slop is at 0.

I just write the documents.

I agree that there could be a way to achieve infinite sustain in a plug-in, but it'll never respond the same way that sympathetic vibration will.

Example:

You have your amp sim set to "sympathetic feedback" mode and you whang a chord. It has to be able to interpret the polyphonic information and single out a note (or more, but usually just one) from that chord so that the rest of the chord eventually decays or degenerates while that one note continues to 'swell'.

Now, assuming the plug-in has done what is currently nigh-impossible, and has:

a ) isolated a note
b ) produced a realistic bloom while allowing the other notes to decay
c ) has entered into a simulated feedback loop, preserving the tone of the guitar by automatically detecting and creating a seamlessly-looped sample

The next step would be to resolve:

a ) ending the note. You can't just mute the string on your guitar, because by then, its real-world vibration has ended and it's already mute

b ) different harmonics being evoked by creative tilting and manipulating of the guitar through physical space.

---

Now, it's a bit unfair to ask for "b", so we'll just strike that off the list, which leaves the first part of the equation (creating the loop realistically) and the second (how to end the loop without playing another note. What if you just want to mute the strings?)

Greg

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:04 pm

LM, yes I see exactly your point. Although a pedal switch could be programmed to kill the sustained sound it won't be as natural of a move as just muting the strings. So maybe what is IK is doing to enhance the sustain ( given they found how to isoltae that note and decay others ) is just killing it after a short while and not sustaining it indefinitly.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:06 pm

loophead wrote:"Well that bit of the code has not been implemented yet" he tells me .... !

So 24 pages of hype here, countless more on music sites all over the web, and the plugin isn't even finished yet?

I've been involved in a few beta tests, and it usually is a bad practice to implement a fundamental feature at the last minute without proper testing. "Hi testing team, I've rewritten the audio engine so that plugin no longer responds or sounds anything like it use to. Please try it out and get back to me ASAP, because I'd like to release it tomorrow."

Oi veh!

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:09 pm

So 24 pages of hype here, countless more on music sites all over the web, and the plugin isn't even finished yet?

I've been involved in a few beta tests, and it usually is a bad practice to implement a fundamental feature at the last minute without proper testing. "Hi testing team, I've rewritten the audio engine so that plugin no longer responds or sounds anything like it use to. Please try it out and get back to me ASAP, because I'd like to release it tomorrow."

Oi veh!

If this is true, than it is just another example of a good product with bad managment. Seems like we do not have straight answers from anybody at IK.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:32 pm

while you guys wait for it to come out I'll be over here happily playing through my pod...

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:40 pm

I bought Amplitube today, I'm gonna test it against my VOX Valvetronix. Then when A2 comes out, I'll test that too. It's a lot better than Guitar Rig I think, but is it as good as a hardware modeller? Soon find out

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:43 pm

Len wrote:Because I'm a Komplete 2 owner I'm going to get Komplete 3 for peanuts and that includes GR2

Peanuts must be really expensive where you live...for me the K2->K3 upgrade is pushing me towards ditching K2 and moving towards AT2.

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:01 pm

A3ntar wrote:
loophead wrote:I asked the player to hit some stuff while I turned down his volume pot. 'Lets hear how dynamic this is.' I mean thats the whole point right. So what do I hear ? Zero dynamics.
Very interristing considering that the DSM technology overview sais the following:

"For example, in the real-world, all analog circuits behave differently according to the level of the signal they are driven (i.e. when driven by a signal ramp), but traditional emulation of analog circuits so far have not been capable to accurately adapt to these various conditions."

"Traditional emulation results in a distorted signal with artifacts even at low level (A), because of the limitation of current technology which is not able to dynamically adapt to the various circuitry status. On the contrary DSM emulation at low level of circuit driving is able to dynamically adapts and reproduce the signal with the same behaviour a real analog circuit would do and therefore without introducing any noticeable artifacts."

I had a really good laugh here !!!

You should have seen my girlfriends face...

When I saw that picture, I thought,
what does THIS has to do with response and dynamics...

NOTHING !

Just another point on the AT2 "hype" list.

"but traditional emulation of analog circuits so far have not been capable to accurately adapt to these various conditions."

Really ?
Listen here:
http://www.soundspectral.com/Soundspect ... e_demo.mp3

A3ntar wrote:
Loophead wrote:"Whats up ?" I ask. "Well that bit of the code has not been implemented yet" he tells me .... !
Weird...because if the DSM emulation engine is not yet fully complete then they have some serious time ahead...

No, first you pay, than "maybe" one day, in an future update...

maybe...

A3ntar wrote:
loophead wrote:As I change the volume the sound remains exactly the same timber
Hmm...Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Somehow i am confused with this statement.

Its a BAD, BAD thing !!!

Listen to how it should sound, when you turn your
guitar volume knob up/down.
http://www.soundspectral.com/Soundspect ... e_demo.mp3
The amp settings remained the same, all the time !
All is done using the volume knob and the playing.

More amp demos here:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=201397

Oh sorry, thats the Soundspectral-Midiworks amp sim !
(it had to be said...)
These demos are NOT ! AT2 or GR2 !!!

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:02 pm

Hink wrote:while you guys wait for it to come out I'll be over here happily playing through my pod...

hehehe, I was just thinking how lucky I am that my Fender Twin hasn't needed to be upgraded to version 3.19872346819. It's sounded like its supposed to for 20 years+. One cable to the guitar, one to the wall and $$$$$$$.

Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix RELEASED this month!!!