License model no way !!!

[Coockie1176ln]

...at the very least this indicates that you're really taking a huge gamble signing up for a subscription ... based on history, you won't even get the teased features or even stability, especially in the calendar year, more like multiple years.. I really cannot understand how they can float this given past experience

There is no gamble. People pay for a 2.0 major update. By early 2018 they will see what was done in 2017 to motivate giving money. If not paying for a 'subscription', then simply wait for 3.0 to buy that major release. Because...

Based on history the current Bitwig allows for creating music. Expectation is that at least this state will also be found by the end of 2017. If not enhanced due to bugfixes, new features, etc.

Of course, if Bitwig 2.0 is totally broken by the end of 2017, this would change. Based on history, this is not likely.

i think bitwig gamled with old modell more, gamled about promising a vision with modulare engine and realtime collab. However they didnt get the income as they needed, the team was to small and yeah its part of gamble and couldnt hold up to the vision: im sure they feel more disopointed about themselves then us. They have an income of 1000 dollars a month what ive heard before. Im sure they only do it for love. they want more income now to expand the crew to give their vissions as it was intended. I think its a back up plan and never was intended to be in play but they need it to grow. Im am one off those people in here that talked the most bad about bitwig but i kinda start getting it. I will give it a chance. you whom doubt hold on your license and check in a few months how it has turned out.

"There's no gamble" you've lost me... you go on to explain the game and the risks, that's gambling.

I will not gamble with a first year subscription. Maybe in 2018, I'm not GAMBLING in 2017.

There's no gamble since the current Bitwig allows for creation and this will be very likely the state that 159€ for 2.0 will give you by the end of 2017.

Do you really think that by the end of 2017 Bitwig will be totally broken preventing using it for creating music ?

[_TIP_]

My main problem is it should be backdated. If I bought my copy say July 12 2016, I should have a upgrade license until July 12,2017. So anyone who bought it after Feb 28th would be able to upgrade. That would make some sense.

I agree a 100%, that would be fair!

[humanbeingbeing]

Do you really think that by the end of 2017 Bitwig will be totally broken preventing using it for creating music ?

That's exactly what I think!.... well lets be clear 'totally broken' vs not ready for production.

[woodsdenis]

As an example of Bitwig not being ready for the pro world don't forget they cannot get it to run at all with the Avid Core Audio driver, something which every other DAW on the planet can do with no problems what so ever. That's pretty broken IMO.

Ok so Protools interfaces are not common in the small studio environment but nearly all major studios use them. Pretty unbelievable if you can get everything from iTunes to Cubase to run with it but not Bitwig. If you are going to start charging premium upgrade/license/sub prices you really should be able to get the basics right.

[mevla]

Do you really think that by the end of 2017 Bitwig will be totally broken preventing using it for creating music ?

That's exactly what I think!.... well lets be clear 'totally broken' vs not ready for production.

Obviously there's disagreement. I create music using the current Bitwig no major problem. I do not mix using Bitwig, as I've stated elsewhere. I am not in business with Bitwig, there is no money associated to the musical creation I currently make.

Speaking of production, were/are you making money using Bitwig ? Or with another DAW ?

[humanbeingbeing]

Do you really think that by the end of 2017 Bitwig will be totally broken preventing using it for creating music ?

That's exactly what I think!.... well lets be clear 'totally broken' vs not ready for production.

Obviously there's disagreement. I create music using the current Bitwig no major problem. I do not mix using Bitwig, as I've stated elsewhere. I am not in business with Bitwig, there is no money associated to the musical creation I currently make.

Speaking of production, were/are you making money using Bitwig ? Or with another DAW ?

Yes we disagree... I'm not really sure where you're going with this production line... so making money using Bitwig?, not an easy answer... I do make money doing productions... I get most of my work done in Ableton nowadays, occasionally have to deal with Cubase... my initial interest in Bitwig was to replace Ableton because Live 9 was a bad release, altho it has gotten better... I have made no money with Bitwig yet, I haven't used the software in 6 months, as I said, I got frustrated with it and decided to let it mature... I could maybe argue that I have lost money with Bitwig because I've had so many issues and in the last version I used it actually corrupted a large project I was working on.... in the studio this is one of the worst things that can happen... in my whole 20 year career this has only happened a couple of times.

[mevla]

Do you really think that by the end of 2017 Bitwig will be totally broken preventing using it for creating music ?

That's exactly what I think!.... well lets be clear 'totally broken' vs not ready for production.

Obviously there's disagreement. I create music using the current Bitwig no major problem. I do not mix using Bitwig, as I've stated elsewhere. I am not in business with Bitwig, there is no money associated to the musical creation I currently make.

Speaking of production, were/are you making money using Bitwig ? Or with another DAW ?

Yes we disagree... I'm not really sure where you're going with this production line... so making money using Bitwig?, not an easy answer... I do make money doing productions... I get most of my work done in Ableton nowadays, occasionally have to deal with Cubase... my initial interest in Bitwig was to replace Ableton because Live 9 was a bad release, altho it has gotten better... I have made no money with Bitwig yet, I haven't used the software in 6 months, as I said, I got frustrated with it and decided to let it mature... I could maybe argue that I have lost money with Bitwig because I've had so many issues and in the last version I used it actually corrupted a large project I was working on.... in the studio this is one of the worst things that can happen... in my whole 20 year career this has only happened a couple of times.

Fair enough. I am not making money from work done in Bitwig and as such there are no blocks in the current version that prevents creating music and as such, I expect that state will be the same ability to create music by the end of 2017, for the rpice of the major version upgrade. I do not expect Bitwig to prevent me from creating music one year from now. Of course, this could change, but I have to look at what they delivered so far and draw a line from there. The line then points at the same state a year from now and that's fine, I have no problems with this at all.

If I ever want to make money I will not use Bitwig for mixing the end products anyways, now and ever.

[mevla]

Still think they did a fabulous job in those (almost) three years, though. It would be too bad if they can't continue.

[humanbeingbeing]

I create music using the current Bitwig no major problem. I do not mix using Bitwig, as I've stated elsewhere. I am not in business with Bitwig, there is no money associated to the musical creation I currently make.

I think this is an important distinction because in the professional context we have to make investments in time, not just money on the license and I find myself in a bad situation with Bitwig... honestly I could easily give them 200 bucks for 2.0 and just leave it gathering dust, but for me to invest time with it on serious productions that could be far more costly, I feel like they have to win me back and they're not making it easy.

[humanbeingbeing]

Still think they did a fabulous job in those (almost) three years, though. It would be too bad if they can't continue.

Good pt, I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Bitwig and I actually think what they have done is an incredible achievement, I am not hating on the company, I do hope it will become the best DAW, it certainly has the potential... but I worry about their continued success when they negate the early adopters who went through so much trouble in the first couple of years.

[BlackStarMuzic]

As an example of Bitwig not being ready for the pro world don't forget they cannot get it to run at all with the Avid Core Audio driver, something which every other DAW on the planet can do with no problems what so ever. That's pretty broken IMO.

Ok so Protools interfaces are not common in the small studio environment but nearly all major studios use them. Pretty unbelievable if you can get everything from iTunes to Cubase to run with it but not Bitwig. If you are going to start charging premium upgrade/license/sub prices you really should be able to get the basics right.

Avid mehh.. I don't care if major studios have it, avid forced it in places studios and the educational system as a couple of Harvard boys own it. I would rather support cubase then anything from that company. They're not forward thinking so they are kind of garbage regardless of what the industry might say. Its why all of these other DAWs are coming up at them swinging will they win doubtful but at least they're trying and not overcharging and ignoring their customers.

I agree bitwig isn't ready for pro but PT isn't for people who want to be creative. At least with hard and soft synths in terms of workflow. "Just my opinion"

[mevla]

Still think they did a fabulous job in those (almost) three years, though. It would be too bad if they can't continue.

Good pt, I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Bitwig and I actually think what they have done is an incredible achievement, I am not hating on the company, I do hope it will become the best DAW, it certainly has the potential... but I worry about their continued success when they negate the early adopters who went through so much trouble in the first couple of years.

You see, we agree on something.

I do not want to repost here, but I just posted a price comparison with Ableton. That Bitwig is asking more for 2.0 is in the ballpark. And that means asking more for upgrades. Unfortunately the Ableton pricing for upgrade is not available publicly as one has to log on to an account to have it calculated based on the current license.

Subscription aside, the Bitwig price asked today for first users of 2.0 399€ (if they buy after release) is in the right range, even a bit lower. That the upgrade is 159€ does not sound so bad.

[humanbeingbeing]

Still think they did a fabulous job in those (almost) three years, though. It would be too bad if they can't continue.

Good pt, I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Bitwig and I actually think what they have done is an incredible achievement, I am not hating on the company, I do hope it will become the best DAW, it certainly has the potential... but I worry about their continued success when they negate the early adopters who went through so much trouble in the first couple of years.

You see, we agree on something.

I do not want to repost here, but I just posted a price comparison with Ableton. That Bitwig is asking more for 2.0 is in the ballpark. And that means asking more for upgrades. Unfortunately the Ableton pricing for upgrade is not available publicly as one has to log on to an account to have it calculated based on the current license.

Subscription aside, the Bitwig price asked today for first users of 2.0 399€ (if they buy after release) is in the right range, even a bit lower. That the upgrade is 159€ does not sound so bad.

159 is a fine price for a subscription IMO, hopefully I will be able to fully try before buying because at this stage I can't pay for another evaluation. Maybe I'll fire up 2.0 beta and find it to be everything I want it to be... I still feel the early users got screwed, really those loyalty badges should count for something.

[mevla]

No way.

Still at it with your account du jour ?

[woodsdenis]

As an example of Bitwig not being ready for the pro world don't forget they cannot get it to run at all with the Avid Core Audio driver, something which every other DAW on the planet can do with no problems what so ever. That's pretty broken IMO.

Ok so Protools interfaces are not common in the small studio environment but nearly all major studios use them. Pretty unbelievable if you can get everything from iTunes to Cubase to run with it but not Bitwig. If you are going to start charging premium upgrade/license/sub prices you really should be able to get the basics right.

Avid mehh.. I don't care if major studios have it, avid forced it in places studios and the educational system as a couple of Harvard boys own it. I would rather support cubase then anything from that company. They're not forward thinking so they are kind of garbage regardless of what the industry might say. Its why all of these other DAWs are coming up at them swinging will they win doubtful but at least they're trying and not overcharging and ignoring their customers.

I agree bitwig isn't ready for pro but PT isn't for people who want to be creative. At least with hard and soft synths in terms of workflow. "Just my opinion"

Don't necessarily disagree with your view of Avid but thats not the point, being unable to get it working on a standard core audio driver like very other DAW surely doesn't give one hope in their skill at fixing bugs quickly. If you are going to charge premium prices you should have a premium product that doesn't suffer from things like this. Seems a pretty basic issue for everyone else but BW struggle with it !!!