New Pigments 2 Thread (On Topic Discussion Only, Please)

[brooon]

Hello there!

I need some help guys. I´m trying hard to get a distinct bass sound (or at least I want to come somehow closer to it compared to where I´m now) out of Pigments 2.0. What I´m trying to achieve is a Two Feet´s bass sound, which you can listen to here, starting at 00:25:



I´m really a noob when it comes to synths, as I´m "just" a guitar & piano player. Still trying to wrap my head around synth sound design - and I really fail at this punchy, yet clear bass. My first questions to you guys would be: How can I get closer to that kind of bass sound? Already got a top that it´s a lowpassed saw with a (thicker) sine sub below it.

Really lost with this task tbh...any help is very much appreciated! Anyone out there who might even have the time to create such a preset? I´d study the result until my brain collapses!

[exponent1]

My first questions to you guys would be: How can I get closer to that kind of bass sound? Already got a top that it´s a lowpassed saw with a (thicker) sine sub below it.

Really lost with this task tbh...any help is very much appreciated! Anyone out there who might even have the time to create such a preset? I´d study the result until my brain collapses!

That's a great start and in the right direction. Try adding some distortion to taste and then compressing the sub and the saw layers together. Can you share the sound you've achieved so far? I believe you should have almost recreated it with that approach as this is a fairly simple sound.

[SamDi]

My first questions to you guys would be: How can I get closer to that kind of bass sound? Already got a top that it´s a lowpassed saw with a (thicker) sine sub below it.

Really lost with this task tbh...any help is very much appreciated! Anyone out there who might even have the time to create such a preset? I´d study the result until my brain collapses!

That's a great start and in the right direction. Try adding some distortion to taste and then compressing the sub and the saw layers together. Can you share the sound you've achieved so far? I believe you should have almost recreated it with that approach as this is a fairly simple sound.

Indeed a good start. It's everytime a good idea to sculp the sound at the end with an EQ. So you can control at the end very well the grittyness and the low-end. Of course you can do this also later in the mixing chain. But it makes sense to apply all FX to a soundin the synth, that you get a first idea how it would sound when you select it, and then later in the mixing process you can replace many FX by better quality track/bus FX.

Fortunately Pigments has very feature rich EQs compared to other synths and you can use several instances.

[SamDi]

Given a lack of evidence to the contrary, why would. I act any other way? Or should I just take your word for it that I've been doing things wrong for 37 years?

This is silly. You can have a synth patch with complex nonlinear modulations that produce wide dynamics that can’t be predicted. Sometimes you just want to compress a synth.

Which is very much be the exception to prove the rule.

He's always like this. Just ignore him. Any other forum would have banned him at this point.

What, for having a different opinion to you? Grow up.

In the case of compressors I'm very confident in my opinion and knowledge, thus have no problems saying that I think Bones is utterly wrong and that I also think he doesn't at all understand how it all fits together.

Any chance you'd be happy to share an example? I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

I tried last WE to build quickly a bass patch, to proove, that Bones' statement is wrong. Unfortunately I have to admit, that at this evening, I got no proper bassline sound out of Pigments nor out of any other synth. Had a very bad day and ear maybe then. So I understand partly Bones' initial statement, that with Pigments it can be complicated to get a proper bassline sound out of it.

In the meanwhile, you can proove your statement with this attached 303 sound.

Pigments_Preset_SQ 303 w Macros_20201025_09h41.pgtx.zip

Compressor need there is obvious. Please show me how to do it equivalent with envelopes. You can provide the patch w/o compressor, adapted ENVs but sounding exactly the same here then.

When I find some time, I can also provide a Bassline sound where compressor is unreplaceable in my opinion and where you can proove your statement there, if you insist.

[SamDi]

Really lost with this task tbh...any help is very much appreciated! Anyone out there who might even have the time to create such a preset? I´d study the result until my brain collapses!

Here is my attempt... but surely needs to be finetuned.

Pigments_Preset_Brazzle_20201025_11h05.pgtx.zip

[brooon]

Hey guys! Thank you all so much for your support & the therefore warm welcome (this actually was my first post, even after years of being a member ).

Here is my attempt... but surely needs to be finetuned.
Pigments_Preset_Brazzle_20201025_11h05.pgtx.zip

Wow man, this REALLY helped a lot and gave me a perfect base to start with. After hours and hours of tweaking my own stuff, I got close to my goal within minutes of using your preset! Instead of using a wavetable for engine 1, you just went with an analog engine type, that´s genius (sorry for enjoying even the simplest epyphanies ). Just experimented with the att curves & attack as well as with the EQ (added another one). And am super happy with the results. Thanks man, learnt a LOT!

Maybe I might add another question: Let´s say my bassline consists of 4 notes and I just want the first note in a beat having a different att curve/attack. Is there any (e.g. pattern based) method to control this within one instance? What I did for now is working with two tracks in my DAW and using different Pigment presets for those "different" tone shapes.

[Sampleconstruct]

Assign a modulator (Macro, modwheel, velocity) to attack time/curve and automate the values of the modulator(s) in your DAW.

[SamDi]

Maybe I might add another question: Let´s say my bassline consists of 4 notes and I just want the first note in a beat having a different att curve/attack. Is there any (e.g. pattern based) method to control this within one instance? What I did for now is working with two tracks in my DAW and using different Pigment presets for those "different" tone shapes.

I prefer velocity to modulate such things. Advantage over other sources, like modwheel, etc. is, that it is very well supported by all MIDI sources, generators, FX or the internal step sequencer.

When you want to influence a sound during it is played I like aftertouch to do it more than modwheel, but this is not so common as velocity. So you need to have a keyboard, which supports this.

[Examigan]

I just tried setting up a basic sequence and on the first step I turned up the velocity slider all the way, assigned the amp envelope attack stage to velocity and now the first note has a quick attack. Simple, but it works. It could also be assigned to just about anything else using that method.

[BONES]

In the meanwhile, you can proove your statement with this attached 303 sound.
Pigments_Preset_SQ 303 w Macros_20201025_09h41.pgtx.zip
Compressor need there is obvious.

No, it isn't. It sounds exactly the same with the compressor on or off. If you doubt me, go and have a look at your settings. The compressor is literally doing nothing at all because the Dry/Wet is set to 100% DRY and the modulation you have set up for it does nothing.

[cb8rwh]

It's tied to Macro 3 and it definitely does something.

[SamDi]

In the meanwhile, you can proove your statement with this attached 303 sound.
Pigments_Preset_SQ 303 w Macros_20201025_09h41.pgtx.zip
Compressor need there is obvious.

No, it isn't. It sounds exactly the same with the compressor on or off. If you doubt me, go and have a look at your settings. The compressor is literally doing nothing at all because the Dry/Wet is set to 100% DRY and the modulation you have set up for it does nothing.

Yes, Macro 3 (Distortion) controls the dry/wet amount of the compressor ( you can see it on the small blue dot on the dry/wet knob). When you turn this up it gets even more obvious. When you then still hear no difference, you shold regard changing your monitors. It clearly affects the attack phase.

[BONES]

I hear that it affects the effects level but even that's not enough that anyone will notice in a mix.

[SamDi]

I hear that it affects the effects level but even that's not enough that anyone will notice in a mix.

Depends on the mix, I would say. Maybe not for your brutalo music

The question is, if in a mix the synth plays a role at all. Since mixing can turn the sound of a synth completely, it should play no role, which synth you use for e.g. basslines. Just take, where you have the best workflow.

But nevertheless you wanted to show, how to do it with envelopes, because it's equivalent.

[BONES]

It's actually quite important in our music because I make that "brutalo" sound with only a few instruments. You should be able to hear everything clearly enough because if I can't hear it, or if I don't think it's doing anything of value in the mix, I remove the track. My most complex projects would only have 7 or 8 instruments in them, most use only 3 or 4 (including drums).