Software has NEVER ACHIEVED Decent Guitar Distortion. Nope.

[donkey tugger]

i think people are way too sensitive.

Indeed, they're widdlers though, comes with the job.

[Synesthesiac]

i agree that in a mix it's harder to judge a good guitar sound, your not listening to just the guitar but also the soup of frequencies that it's simmering in. if you like the guitar sound in a any particular mix you're not really liking the just the guitar sound.

but then there's playing with a good tone/sound ( i forget if the original poster made this distinction or is condemning any and all noise that comes out of a sim) and that's where i still prefer my mp-1 preamp into a cab sim. and i'll still use sims for things. freeamp has the best response of the many but not all amp sims that i've tried.

after playing and enjoying sims all day and then trying out the mp-1, i can hear/feel the difference. there's also room for improvement there and dynamic speaker emulation would be an evolution in the right direction. i have no ideas about that, guitarzan, i hope someone does.

oh and those are very sweet tones, Empty Uranus. i've built a low wattage tube amp and can attest that recording with low volumes can still produce great recorded sound.

[Hink]

Then mute me and don't listen to my music, problem solved.

No, I'd never do any such a thing.

If I am happy and it brings me pleasure, why does that bother you so much?

It doesn't bother me at all.
What DOES bother me though is you spreading your all so shiny wisdom in EACH AND EVERY guitar tone related thread, be it about pickups, picks, wood, playing, amps and what not, whereas I don't know of any guitar (or guitar tone) afficionado who would even remotely praise your tone. That's why I asked where and when.

The fact you keep telling me how bad I am tells me that the above is a mask. I have every right to post my thoughts and my music, if you don't like it get Ben to ban me.

What a nonsense.

No one is making you listen to my music or read my posts. But the way I see it, the constant putdowns suggest the problem isn't with my playing or what I say...the problem is yours and all yours, and I have absolutely nothing to prove to you.

You don't have anything to prove to me, that's right.
But you're not open to ANY criticism when it comes to ANYTHING guitar related, because you've got all the wisdom there is. Heck, when I told you your phrasing was freaking boring, you said "I'm happy with it, so there" instead of even remotely thinking about asking WHY I would said so and what I might suggest to improve things. This to me looks like you being just absolutely ignorant.

When you were in school studying music I was in school studying people, one proven theory is that when we strongly dislike something about someone, it's usually because in that person we see something we do not like about ourselves.

Aha. Interesting. So, as a professional teacher, I am supposed to NOT say what I don't like, eh?

If I were you I would worry more about that, than trying do to do whatever it is you're trying to do by following me around all the time and telling me how bad I am.

I'm not following you at all. You just happen to post in each and every guitar oriented thread, selling your wisdom as some sort of absolute truth, whereas you (at least in my opinion, and I'm sure most guitar musicv afficionados would share that) can't even show the slightest soundfile earning your words any credibility. Ok, I know "lots" of people love your tone and playing. And of course, you do as well. So there's no room for improvements. Especially not in case such an asshole like me is even thinking about telling you how to improve. And especially as you already know how to improve anyways. Yeah, right. So, I'm done with that.

you're wrong Sascha, you give the respect I have for you as a musician too little credit. In fact dozens of times I have suggested to others in a thread to ask you because you would know better (even in this thread to Greg a few pages back), about theory, about gear, I defer to your knowledge often. So please don't go there, that is false.

I do listen to what you say, though when I start to disagree with you, then you criticize my playing. I have never once seen you in a thread of a song I posted. So when it comes to the same thing over and over, then what am I to expect?

I welcome your criticism, but it would be nice as a professional teacher if you would put it the form out constructive criticism. It's human nature to start overlooking blatant attacks, and my dear sir...I am intelligent enough to know the difference bewtween the two and I know a duck and weave when I see it.

[Mokafix]

I studied some amp sims signals lately, and they all seem to use the exactly same technique, be it a software or hardware (V-amp2). I'm quite sure that there's no much difference between all those amp sims, and that the only differences are more about amp inner settings than about technology involved.

So I'd say that no X sofware kick's Y software's ass.
Maybe the amps set in X can fit your taste better than those from Y, but that's all.

Now, about real amps... i have no idea, as I had no oportunity to test any.
But I guess they might sound slightly different, as softwares sound different from each other...

But I think that it's not because resitor amps and software amps try to mimic tube amps that they are worse than their model.
As far as I know, we still use manual cars in France, even if it's more tricky to use and to learn; it doesn't mean it's better, but just a kinda tradition.
Same for Apple computers : a lot of people still believe they are better than PC, just because it's been true for many years. But now, Apple computers come with too much fancy stuff; they're loosing the "pro" market and focusing on the "average joe who buy what looks good" market instead.
i work in a france big diary, and we (the graphic designers) are moving from apple to PC, and it's so nice...
cheaper, faster, less "computer has failed and must shut down without saving anything" bugs...

But I 'm aware it'll be long for freelance designers to do the same, because some jerks will always ask "you're working on macs, aren't you?", and make suppositions on their competence uppon that...

So, I won't compare amps and amp sims, as i'm not competent enough.
When TB303 was invented, it was aimed to replaced a bass player...(don't laugh)
If you look at it that way, it's a big crap, period.
but if you just listen to it's sound without thinking "does it come closer to a fender or a rickenbaker?", then you might think "This thing sounds fun! I could certainly use it in a song!"

Ok, that was my humble contribution to this thread.

[hibidy]

Everyone has a different aspect on the issue.

and the last post points something out that is very VERY important.....we can't all have the luxury of trying all those cool/kickass amps and go through the proceedures.

at any rate for me it's come down to this.

price
stability
the "will I have the neighbors call the cops" effect........I hate cops
the sound "you" hear in your head.........it's different for all
mics (unless you have a sequis motherload) , position, your ability to get the levels right, preamps, channel strips (super huge)...etc.
and, what I'd like to call the "I'm never satisfied no matter what " syndrome......which I suffer from BTW.......

there are more, but I can't think of them right now.........too hot..........it's still about 100 outside and it's 130 in the morning.......

[Hink]

I'm glad this went back on topic because it was a great discussion...I certainly agree that hibidy's points are good ones. But after years of retail and many bands (and keeping up with technology since Nixon was in office) I have seen this same pattern repeated and repeated. Far too many guitarists need validation from outside sources, it's not enough to have talent but they have to show it with status symbols. The status symbols haven't changed in years unfortunately. You're not a real guitarist unless you have what they deem best. Like I say, I've owned and played through many, I have a good ear but tbh...I have no mechanism in me to memorize all the tones of my old plexi or any amp. It's just not possible, I can remember some of what I liked and some of what I didn't, but it's far from objective because often we all play in different environments. I suppose if some extremely rich dude had the urge, he could buy all the amps and test them...but what does it prove?

IMO the important thing is what does your sound do for you? I love my sound and I can find it in more and more things theses days, which means I enjoy playing even more (which I think it's very cool that my enjoyment still grows). Like I said back on page 27 (or close to it), it's probably a threshold kind of thing. I don't look at an amp as what defines me, if someone judges me on that, it's insecurities. If I let the fact that I didn't have a Les Paul when I was a kid or the latest amp get medown...I would of stopped years ago. Think of how zep got named, proves the point well...basically they were told they would fall flat on their faces...funny turn of events if you ask me.

What if Leo Fender met this opposition to his new concepts of the electric guitar, or Les Paul? What if Chuck Berry had of listened do all those who said his tone was wrong...what about the early days of jazz? Sure now it's a status symbol to be good at jazz...jazz musicians are far more talented and wise than just a rocker (sarcasm of course)...but that wasn't always so..in fact they were often the beatniks of their day. (how soon we forget). What if the elitist snobs (and there just as many then) had of won their argument...would we be where we are today? I love the way it is, I can have a concept in my head and get it on a cd as I wanted it (of course along the way I can improve things and often do)

The trick is to look at the glass half full, not half empty...again like I said in this thread while it was still on topic, most of the dislike for the tones are in peoples heads...they just haven't grown up enough to see that, they draw lines in the sand...you're a "just for fun musician"..."you're not the guitar god I am" and back it up with see my gear...

So for those people I say "well good for you"..though secretly I'm thinking, what a shame to limit yourself in such a great time of awesome gear and endless possibilities. If tubes amps are the only way to achieve your sound that's fine, it's your sound...nobody on earth has the right to criticize that and only the truly stuck up do. Because without their precious gear, they are just another guitar player...the funny thing is they can spend a million dollars on gear, have 50 gold albums...they're still just another guitarist.

It is sad though when a guitarist allows an amp tone or piece of gear to keep him/her going and it's sad how many get so frustrated with simple distractions and go all ballistic over it. They attack us open minded people over their weaknesses and put down our gear, long time feud with my half brother on this...yet he paid more for just one of his guitars than I have paid for three very nice guitars all nicely equipped with what I have learned over the years to be the best for me.

I love the inspirations in my POD2.0 and my POD xt live...when I'm bored I can try out a different sounding amp than I'm use to and often it sparks a song that brings me great pleasure and judging from how my songs are received by others apparently brings pleasure to others (there are of course those who hate and heckle). All they are realing doing is tying a noose around their creativity and hurting themselves...I've seen so many come and go. But then I too have never been satisfied with my end products, but sooner or later I say "enough" and get it done.

One trick to change this is the internet and posting your music. Often we find that there are things we dont like, so we keep trying to get it better...posting online gains the whole gambit of praise to slander. So what I do is I make a list of what I percieve to be the problem parts and then post and see how many people notice those parts, I also pay close attention to all other criticisms. But to maintain objectivity you also have to look at the motivation behind the criticism...statements like "everything you do sux" or "as long as you're using a POD you'll never be good" are not constructive criticisms, they are biased. But I find for the most part only the very, very insecure attack people and the rest are truly well meaning players who are empathetic and caring...it takes a while to weed those out, but soon patterns emerge in people.

But when the bickering is over, what's important is how you feel...not someone else who is struggling with their own issues. So those who put down sims in a malicious way are the losers in the end.

It is sad though that some have to draw lines in the sand and say they are better...better at what? Better at finding joy and passion in what they do, or better at finding excuses for what they can't do....again as I said before, I do not let obstacles (or lame insults) stop me or slow me down, I turn them into inspirations that reflect how I'm feeling...imo that's what art is about...not for some insecure snob to take cheap shots to boost their ego...thank god I'm not one of those. Since 35 years last tuesday I've been finding great joy in playing, and though I use to have stupid rules to validate my playing...now I can take pleasure in creating my art and show it with pride...the way technology is going, as long as I don't stick my head back in the sand, it will only get better. I know that when I close my eyes and take my last breath I will be remebered for my passion about playing and for my love of music.IMHO that is far more imposrtant than being hyped up as some kinda god...because there is always someone better and there's always someone who lacks the self esteem to get that kick without putting others down, judging gear, judging tastes in music...sadly this will never end. Those who get dereailed by simple things are the sad cases indeed...

[Killvehicle]

THAT was back on topic? Oh and I just played thru a Jtm 45 and used a v-stack stomp for distorion(hell that is a great pedal) and that is another amp I can admit sounds a whole lot better TO MY EARS than any sim..

[Hink]

THAT was back on topic? Oh and I just played thru a Jtm 45 and used a v-stack stomp for distorion(hell that is a great pedal) and that is another amp I can admit sounds a whole lot better TO MY EARS than any sim..

yes it was, it was about the perception of amp sims and how some people you're never going to change their veiws I'm glad yo tried a different amp, and I'm glad for you that you liked it...the three words "TOO MY EARS" makes all the difference in the world...that's what it's about. Seeing how you can say what sounds good to your ears I'm sure you cn appreciate we all have the same right to like what sounds good to our ears...balance my friend, balance

[stag]

THAT was back on topic? Oh and I just played thru a Jtm 45 and used a v-stack stomp for distorion(hell that is a great pedal) and that is another amp I can admit sounds a whole lot better TO MY EARS than any sim..

The issue is not how it sounds to your ears but how it sounds on tape.

You have to record it with a good mic(or not so good) on a adequate room, have good wiruing and consoles, apply dynamics, EQ the track et all.

I'm not an engineer and i don't care to be, i want things that work.

On my gigging days i carry around more amps and gear i could tell, just to realize that i was too dependent of thae sound guy and PA i was using on a giving day.
So i trimmed down my setup to two preamps(one for backup, a Carvin Quad-x and a JMP-1, direct to the board thru the speaker emmulated out, dried to the bone, i only used Wah.
When i was going to shoot a solo just rise my hand to the sound guy to add a little, very little verb, one doesn't need much playing at an arena or a big house.

I couldn't be happier, no more tap dance, just playing with the fellas and enjoying the evening.

As Hink said, the guys before us played with what they could afford and was available at the time, off course pleople who managed to earn a reputation with other gear before them just didn't like it. Just like classical guitarrist say that playing alectric guitar is cheating, and they are rigth, to get tha maximum claean volume out of an instrument one just has to turn up the dial, off course dynamics and all the nuances are lost but look ma: i can do the tap thing.

Now on 2006 at KVR dicussing the tones of yesterday is boring.
Did someone played an electric guitar thru Absynth route it to a Vocoder triggered by a bass line??? what about Reaktor? oh it doesn't sound like a guitar... but it rocks.

[Sascha Franck]

Did someone played an electric guitar thru Absynth route it to a Vocoder triggered by a bass line??? what about Reaktor? oh it doesn't sound like a guitar... but it rocks.

I totally agree on these sentiments, and it's *exactly* what I like amp sims and the likes for: There's NEW sounds! Not the same old shit (that I still love and use), but something entirely new.
Just recently I had tons of fun on a rehearsal room session, running my guitar through Kjaerhus' Autofilter (synced by tap tempo of course), followed by some mad delay/phaser chain (all synced again), while controlling cutoff, resonance, delay and phaser feedback by a pedal, so I could go from a rather plain, smoothly delayed rhythm sound to total screaming feedback mayhem just in a matter of a few foot movements. No f**king way to get even remotely close to that with my standard setup.
And yes, the other dudes loved it as well. They've never ever heard something like that coming from a guitar before at all.
After all, it's 2006 (don't get me wrong, I still love my real amps), so us guitar players should finally take advance of that. At least sometimes.

[6 6 6]

Jezzuz...... he'z sooo right!!
Ya know, I OWN guitar rig 2, Guitar Port, and Line 6 - XT-LivePod...
Well, this morning, I dug out me trusty Roland Jazz-Chorus Amp, for a little
remind-me-whoop-t-du.

Hell no, I hate all guitar emulation software, AGAIN, 4-ever.

Itz junk, it'll never be the real deal, at best it'z watt it is...


an emulation.



YEP!!!!!


.......guys do yourself a favor, get a real "TUBE-AMP", just try it. It'll make U sick!!!!



6 6 6

[guitarzan]

Jezzuz...... he'z sooo right!!
Ya know, I OWN guitar rig 2, Guitar Port, and Line 6 - XT-LivePod...
Well, this morning, I dug out me trusty Roland Jazz-Chorus Amp, for a little
remind-me-whoop-t-du.

Hell no, I hate all guitar emulation software, AGAIN, 4-ever.

Itz junk, it'll never be the real deal, at best it'z watt it is...


an emulation.



YEP!!!!!


.......guys do yourself a favor, get a real "TUBE-AMP", just try it. It'll make U sick!!!!



6 6 6

The Roland Jazz Chorus isn't a tube amp. It'll never be the real deal. It'z best at watt it is...

a sterile transistor amp.

YEP!!!!!

[Jason Brian Merrill]

Jezzuz...... he'z sooo right!!
Ya know, I OWN guitar rig 2, Guitar Port, and Line 6 - XT-LivePod...
Well, this morning, I dug out me trusty Roland Jazz-Chorus Amp, for a little
remind-me-whoop-t-du.

Hell no, I hate all guitar emulation software, AGAIN, 4-ever.

Itz junk, it'll never be the real deal, at best it'z watt it is...


an emulation.



YEP!!!!!


.......guys do yourself a favor, get a real "TUBE-AMP", just try it. It'll make U sick!!!!



6 6 6

The Roland Jazz Chorus isn't a tube amp. It'll never be the real deal. It'z best at watt it is...

a sterile transistor amp.

YEP!!!!!

yes, i thought he was joking actually.

I think GR2 does a great emulation of it...

i wouldnt think it would be that hard.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

... think Andy summers from the police.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

also, 6 6 6 -- why did you go ahead and buy all that stuff when to your ears it was crap? Did you not demo GR2??? did you not learn from buying a line 6 product that the other was crap?

seems a bit weird to me.

i think you should try hooking up your pod to your amp -- sounds great