Tracktion Software

valley · Post by **valley** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:58 pm

On balance, though I share samb's distrust of cluttering up the input section uncessarily, I have to say I think virtual inputs for track destinations is more intuitve and visible than the current track destination approach.

I don't even imagine it would be much work to do, and then it would fit more in with a true left to right visualisation of an edit.

(now I'm going to try and go a whole post or two more without mentioning folder tracks, but it's tough)

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:02 pm

Lunch Money wrote:That, and I kept wanting to change "Input comes from" instead of "Input goes to", though now that I finally had some puzzle pieces fall into place, I can see why the "Input comes from" is only giving me the option of a stereo pair.

Yes, this is another thing where he labelling is unclear,

In IIRs screeenshot where it says "left input goes to" it means "left stereo channel from this particluar track goes to", which basiclly means "send destination for left stereo channel from this particluar track". That "input" in the current labelling can easily be confused with meaning an input of the rack.

And I'll just emphasise again that I don't think it is helpful to think of the "rack filters" as mirrors of the rack, think of them as entirely different objects - send/returns to the rack.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:03 pm

In terms of clutter, once "tracks as devices" are assigned, couldn't you just hide the input section?

Super non-cluttery.

If you're a track-destination-routing fool, you'd probably want to switch to per-track input view, and then there wouldn't be ANY more clutter, since unoccupied spaces still take up the same amount of space. They'd just be filled with pixels instead of empty. Might be a bit more "busy" visually, but there are always 3 options:

1. Modify your colour scheme to be less intrusive
2. (as mentioned) Hide the input device section, totally eliminating clutter
3. Mackie could code it so that when there are track destination rout "devices", they'd be a different and less intrusive colour.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:10 pm

As I understand it these suggestions would break the current sub-grouping functionality (which I love!) and remove the possibility of pre-fader sends to racks..

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:13 pm

I don't think hiding the input section would solve the clutter problem as, when you're recording, you'd have to keep hiding and revealing your input section to move your inputs around - a pain in the arse. And just to emphasise that clutter would be a problem: say you have five drum tracks routed to a sub-mix track - this would need five new inputs all pointing at one track (which I don't think is possible with the per-track input view is it? I never use it so I may be wrong.)

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:14 pm

You are correct Samb, thats what I meant by "break the current sub-grouping functionality"

zOap · Post by **zOap** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:15 pm

Atleast we have discussed it, and if we put our mind to it I'm sure we can find a solution which we all can be happy with, then all we have to do is to throw it in RM's direction beggin him to implent, lol, that may be the hardest part.

But I agree, many of the labels are misleading and should be replaced with more accurate ones.

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:24 pm

IIRs wrote:As I understand it these suggestions would break the current sub-grouping functionality (which I love!) and remove the possibility of pre-fader sends to racks..

Well the mix-rack idea I had would expand the sub-grouping functionality to include sending a track to multiple groups (and basically all functionality of racks for parallel etc. routings would be available) and would give you a visual representation of where tracks were going. It would be a single rack that would be hardwired to the end of all tracks (just off the right side of screen as it is at present) and would replace and expand all the current track routing functionality.

This would be in ADDITION to racks as they are now, which needn't be changed at all to accomodate this idea.

This is how I see it anyway- it would be much easier to decribe with pictures I think.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:27 pm

just like a giant master patch bay filter then ???

slainte

rob

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:31 pm

pHz wrote:just like a giant master patch bay filter then ???

slainte rob

Yes! But also like a rack in that you could add vsts and vstis into it as well (even a vst mixer if you wanted

)

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:34 pm

i was with you till you mentioned a mixer ...

slainte

rob

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:42 pm

pHz wrote:i was with you till you mentioned a mixer ...

slainte rob

Not that I personally would ever, ever think of condoning the use of a mixer you understand, no no no no!

It was just for illustrative purposes, to help those poor souls yet to see the light to understand what the possiblities may be.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:43 pm

You're right, my idea WOULD break the sub-grouping functionality unless it got refined further than I've suggested. I COULD come up with a whole new approach that would work with my suggestion but NOT break it.

Remember, I DID mention that it'd be more useful with multiple inputs per track, but I wasn't necessarily thinking of the sub-grouping at the time.

OK, since the brain's active:

You have the same or similar drop-down menu on Track 3 as the existing one, but instead of in the property panels, it's right-click selectable. OR, I guess it COULD still be in the properties panel. No matter

. You select "track 5" as your destination. On the left of Track 5, where there would normally be an input device, it now says, "Track 3".

You then go to Track 4 and do the same thing. Your little icon says "Track 3, Track 4". Now, you WILL run out of space very very quickly, but just as when you now right-click that input area you are given a menu with your options, it will now display which tracks are currently routed to that track.

I think the visual clutter thing is a non-issue because it's so easily resolved. I could even Photoshop a mock-up, but it could easily be done to make it non-cluttered. You aren't generally pointing an actual physical input device at those tracks anyhow, because you're not recording from track 3 AND recording from your guitar into track 5 at the same time. And since it's your mix, you're probably pretty aware of where your inputs are.

Then, since they'd be a different colour, it'd be easy to have, for example, a grey "track-as-input" device on a grey background but a RED (for example) "physical input" device for easy identification. It's no more intrusive than the track names themselves.

Greg

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:47 pm

OR,

Since the current way is already there, you could use either/or, OR a combination. Don't ditch the old way, but simply ADD an option "use this track as an input device". In fact, I never initial meant to suggest or imply that the old way be completely shit-canned, but was simply suggesting a new feature. Then I allowed myself to get de-railed.

Nothing removed, nothing broken, but the OPTION is there.

Greg

Samb · Post by **Samb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:56 pm

Lunch Money wrote:It's no more intrusive than the track names themselves.

Greg

No, it isn't, but it doesn't add anything which can't be done with track names now - I call my Drum sub-mix track "Drum sub-mix" and then i pick "drum sub-mix" from the list for my drum tracks - I don't need an icon to tell me this as well. All that's needed if you go down this route is the ability to pick more than one track from the list and another list of tracks which input into this one.

But, anyway I don't like the list and would prefer a visual method of routing tracks, which is why I came up with my "mix rack/master patchbay filter" idea.

Tracktion Software

KVR Audio

Suggestion for routing.