Swings and rounderbouts, I'm sure...
Based on mine and students' experiences I would think the following to be fairly normal though:...
In Ableton they would find it
* easier to see how to drag/drop a VST onto a track
* would like the fact that all the instrument/effect interfaces snuggle up to each other in an obvious way along the bottom
* would find the auz send/return set up more obvious/intuitive (although that impinges on Session View, I know)
* proabably appreciate the ease of viewing the piano roll Full Screen (which Live can do and not Tracktion at present)
* Find it easier to set up when first launching it (i.e. setting up audio/MIDI/latency/etc)
* Find MIDI controller mapping MUCH easier.
* Enjoy using the querty keyboard as an instrument for playing in notes
In Tracktion I think a beginner would:
* Find recording audio slightly more immediate
* Find mixing within the arrange view easier
* Find the master strip more accessible
* Undersand the routing at least as well.
That's all basic beginner stuff, so not to detract from ModuLR's previous points. Just my $0.02 on that question.
T2 for sale - $50
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
for sure ... horses fror courses ... we both know it ...headquest wrote:Swings and rounderbouts, I'm sure...
headquest wrote:Based on mine and students' experiences I would think the following to be fairly normal though:...
In Ableton they would find it
agreed until the first time you do it in T2 ... then theres probably not much in it in terms of speed / ease ... but it IS initially clearer in live5 ...headquest wrote:* easier to see how to drag/drop a VST onto a track
again ... initially this is easier i agree ... but also again once you know either apps way of working its the same number of clicks to access a VST GUI for example (native effects / generators are admittedly more accessible in live) ...headquest wrote:* would like the fact that all the instrument/effect interfaces snuggle up to each other in an obvious way along the bottom
totally agree ...headquest wrote:* would find the auz send/return set up more obvious/intuitive (although that impinges on Session View, I know)
unless im missing something in the way of switches or key assignments (which is quite possible i admit not spending much time in live these days) ... starting from a 'standard' screenview ...headquest wrote:* proabably appreciate the ease of viewing the piano roll Full Screen (which Live can do and not Tracktion at present)
... BOTH took 2 mouseclicks and 1 click-drag ... admittedly the T2 MIDI editor isnt completely fullscreen but if you cant work at that scale you need to go to specsavers anyway (it WOULD however be VERY nice to be able to resize the controller / velocity view in T2 i admit)
not sure i agree with that TBH ...headquest wrote:* Find it easier to set up when first launching it (i.e. setting up audio/MIDI/latency/etc)
agreed ... the live MIDI-mapping model IS great (apart from with VST plugins with a LARGE number of parameters) ...headquest wrote:* Find MIDI controller mapping MUCH easier.
in an educational context i can see that yeah ...headquest wrote:* Enjoy using the querty keyboard as an instrument for playing in notes
headquest wrote:In Tracktion I think a beginner would:
its what tracktion was built for after all ...headquest wrote:* Find recording audio slightly more immediate
correct emphasis ... although lives arrengement view is more than capable it is probably less immediate than T2s (as i said this was the subjective deciding factor for me in the end)headquest wrote:* Find mixing within the arrange view easier
unless im misunderstanding you i dont think theres much in it here TBH ...headquest wrote:* Find the master strip more accessible
heehee ... until you start to throw racks in there or try to use T2s aux / send functionality ... but yeah ... the strict left-right signal flow is one of the tracktion concepts great strengths ...headquest wrote:* Undersand the routing at least as well.
likewise ... i only REALLY responded because of the fullscreen MIDI thing ... its one of the few unfounded criticisms of T2 by users of other sequencers that TRULY gets under my skin ...headquest wrote:That's all basic beginner stuff, so not to detract from ModuLR's previous points. Just my $0.02 on that question.
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Thanks for that Rob, and its interesting that we agree on almost all counts 
Regarding the MIDI editing full screen view, thanks for posting the screenshots...
Regarding the Ableton one - for the sake of non users who may be reading through this - an additional mouse click would have closed down the properties on the left to give a genuine full-screen. Tools all have key-commands assigned to them. By the way, in Ableton you assign key commands - the same as MIDI controller mapping - directly in the main arrange view, rather than having to wade through a different complex settings screen.
Regarding the Tracktion one - I agree that it would be nice to close down the lower section of the screen, and I'm suprised this wasn't implemented at the same time as Mackie made the left/right parts shut-able (is that a word?).
The thing I find really tricky with Tracktion in this example is mouse clicking actions. I often find when doing MIDI editing that if I click twice too quickly, Tracktion interprets that as a double-click command and the editing interface immediately closes down. Everything then has to be opened back up and resized. I guess there's probably a way to stop this happening, but it is the default behavior of the program.
I've seen students on my courses get quite frustrated/irate with this in fact. My guess is that if the piano roll could essentially be docked into full-screen mode as a proper feature, it would stay open.
Also this behavior has got even more annoying since the introduction of the floating toolbar in T2
But here's the real shocker... student feedback indicates that out of Cubase, Tracktion, Live and Reason, the beginners choice for MIDI editing - far and away the favourite in fact - is Reason
Regarding the MIDI editing full screen view, thanks for posting the screenshots...
Regarding the Ableton one - for the sake of non users who may be reading through this - an additional mouse click would have closed down the properties on the left to give a genuine full-screen. Tools all have key-commands assigned to them. By the way, in Ableton you assign key commands - the same as MIDI controller mapping - directly in the main arrange view, rather than having to wade through a different complex settings screen.
Regarding the Tracktion one - I agree that it would be nice to close down the lower section of the screen, and I'm suprised this wasn't implemented at the same time as Mackie made the left/right parts shut-able (is that a word?).
The thing I find really tricky with Tracktion in this example is mouse clicking actions. I often find when doing MIDI editing that if I click twice too quickly, Tracktion interprets that as a double-click command and the editing interface immediately closes down. Everything then has to be opened back up and resized. I guess there's probably a way to stop this happening, but it is the default behavior of the program.
I've seen students on my courses get quite frustrated/irate with this in fact. My guess is that if the piano roll could essentially be docked into full-screen mode as a proper feature, it would stay open.
Also this behavior has got even more annoying since the introduction of the floating toolbar in T2
But here's the real shocker... student feedback indicates that out of Cubase, Tracktion, Live and Reason, the beginners choice for MIDI editing - far and away the favourite in fact - is Reason