KVR Audio

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:41 am

looking back, overpower was a poor choice of words...I do no overpower the speakers, but I use an amp that is far more powerful than the monitors are rated for...but I do not put too much power into the speakers...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:49 am

Sickle wrote:Ok, hink, I have a question(s) for you:

On my Fender Pro Verb, I sometimes run a BOSS GL 100 solid state pre-amp into it, which has way more tone shaping abilities.

My question is this:

Where do I want my EQ settings to be on the Fender? At zero, or like 3-4? Also, I was told to turn the master on the Fender up a bit to exploit the tubes, turn the gain way up on the BOSS, and use the BOSS's master to set the volume.

Is that correct?

And one more:

I was also told to use the pre-amp inline like a stomp-box depite the pre-amp in inputs on the back of the Fender..I haven't had a problem with that, but is that correct?

question one...I don't know that I would use the bosses master to control your volume...but if it sounds good, do it...it might get garbbled though...as for tone controls...I would use both to shape the sound...I might run the tone controls flat on the amp, but doubtful...they are too important on most amps...(on a plexi I wouldnt care, they were close to useless)

Question two...yes that is correct...if I read it right...I use the second jack on the back of my marshall pre because the front one is tired and korg are jerks...getting parts is very hard...

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:51 am

A nice side effect is that you really do your tweeters a big favour that way, a JBL PA rep once demonstrated that by connecting a 2" HF driver rated @ 90 Watts continuous power to the secretary's ghetto blaster (ca. 5 Watts max) and turning it up "british style" to 11. Didn't even take a minute to fry the voice coil. Those drivers cost several hundred dollars and normally last for years on the road when being considerably "overpowered".
So don't try this at home !
Woofers and guitar speakers on the other hand obviously don't mind distortion at all.
susiwong

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:51 am

susiwong,
Yeah, the "Blues Master" is about the best of the bunch and my favorite tube recording pre (although I actually prefere a setup using free vst's now - oddly). I also have two of those old Tubeman pedals and they are the best for a really clean "spanky" funk tone (Jazz setting, I think) or the best direct super Nu-Metal chunka-chunka tone there will ever be (Rock setting, I beleive). I have owned the Mesa Boogie Pre and was not impressed, and I thought the ADA Ampulator was aweful (supposed to be a 12AX7 wired as a power amp - forerunner of the way Vox Tonelab's "poweramp" section works). I like the Kittyhawk preamp enough to hang onto.

I need to try all my tube stuff fed into some vst speaker sims, etc. Maybe the missing ingredient.

ross g · Post by **ross g** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:53 am

Hink wrote:fwiw I also way over power my monitors (tannoy protojs) for the same reasons...I do not turn them up loud, but a large power amp running at a lower volume is not going to distort much at all...amps are rated at full volume...many boast like .05 thd at say 100w...now take a 400 watt power amp and it will likely have similar specs at full volume...but you wont be pushing it harder...so you know its cleaner...if you clip your monitors by overdriving them you need to work on your ears some...so if you hear clipping and it's not coming from the monitors, and you couldn't hear the tiny amount that might exist in the power amp...that leaves one source now doesn't it...

if i'm reading this right (and i'm sure i'll be told different), that is against all i've learned...you should turn the power amp as much as possible (before any noise is audible at least depending on your setup) and feed the the power amp accordingly...for example, i have my active monitors turned up full blast, i adjust the mixer for appropriat signal levels, and adjust desired volume by the monito send on the mixer...i have no idea why you would do it like you describe, just asking for trouble, i mean, it's the wrong way to do it.....and what it has to do with the topic?

ross g · Post by **ross g** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:56 am

Hink wrote:looking back, overpower was a poor choice of words...I do no overpower the speakers, but I use an amp that is far more powerful than the monitors are rated for...but I do not put too much power into the speakers...

see you motherf**ker, i didn't read this part

i knew i'd get screwed for piping in again....

BOO HISS!

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:58 am

Let's not forget about the other possibilities - if I'm not mistaken, Satriani didn't use a single tube while recording "Flying In A Blue Dream" - at least that's what he told GP magazine back then. Talk about monster tone !
susiwong

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:06 am

susiwong wrote:Let's not forget about the other possibilities - if I'm not mistaken, Satriani didn't use a single tube while recording "Flying In A Blue Dream" - at least that's what he told GP magazine back then. Talk about monster tone !
susiwong

I'm rather proud of the tone on my song sleeping giant...just click my link...that song and two others are just a sansamp gt2 pedal...

Sickle · Post by **Sickle** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:17 am

Hink wrote:Question two...yes that is correct...if I read it right...I use the second jack on the back of my marshall pre because the front one is tired and korg are jerks...getting parts is very hard...

I think you misunderstood.

I was told to use it inline and go straight into the Fender's guitar input jack in front of the amp and not use the pre-amp in.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:23 am

Sickle wrote:
Hink wrote:Question two...yes that is correct...if I read it right...I use the second jack on the back of my marshall pre because the front one is tired and korg are jerks...getting parts is very hard...
I think you misunderstood.

I was told to use it inline and go straight into the Fender's guitar input jack in front of the amp and not use the pre-amp in.

that's fine too...see my input I was speaking of is the same as input on the front...but I did think you meant you had two like mine....sorry I can't remember how eveery amp is set-up...the longer I've been out of retail the more I forget...I use to buy and sell a lot of used gear, but I'm getting old and models run together

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:38 am

Hey Hink,
cool stuff ! Been away listening to your songs. My favourites at first glance are "Sleeping Giant", the 1st lead part on "I stepped right in it" and most of all the acoustic guitar in "Plight Of A Dreamer". That wasn't DI'd, was it ?
The Sansamp tones work great in your songs, especially since you don't seem to be emulating some real amp but use the tones the way they are. Basically the same approach Satriani used on that record.
I also appreciate the variety of styles, makes me regret that I'm more of a player than a writer.
Thanks for sharing !
susiwong

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:48 am

guitarzan wrote:There was a really cool lineup from Hughes & Kettner in the early 90's of half rack sized tube amps - preamp and power amp and speaker emulation (optional). I still own the entire series, my favorite is the "Blues Master" and it has a single 12AX7 preamp tube and an EL84 power tube. It really is nice - lot's of "chime" and great for clean, but I can get closer to what I'm looking for in overdriven direct tone with digital modeling.

Wehay, I just got my hands on the 'Cream Machine' version of the H&K half-rack amp. It's near perfect for what I was looking for in harmonically rich saturated hi-gain. A perfect complimentary contrasting sound to my Laney LC15r which does beauty cleans to crunch. So far only have tried it D.I with the 'cabulator' emulation. Going to have to get me a Framus 212 cab or something similar to get the most out of it. That'll have to wait till a bit more money comes my way though!

I reckon H&K should bring back those half-racks in some format or other, they make really nifty recording tools and their tubeman series don't really offer the same specs. H&K claim that there is no market for them but I disagree.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:57 am

Especially since they were priced below 250 $ if I remember correctly.
susiwong

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:04 am

susiwong wrote:Hey Hink,
cool stuff ! Been away listening to your songs. My favourites at first glance are "Sleeping Giant", the 1st lead part on "I stepped right in it" and most of all the acoustic guitar in "Plight Of A Dreamer". That wasn't DI'd, was it ?
The Sansamp tones work great in your songs, especially since you don't seem to be emulating some real amp but use the tones the way they are. Basically the same approach Satriani used on that record.
I also appreciate the variety of styles, makes me regret that I'm more of a player than a writer.
Thanks for sharing !
susiwong

thanx, I'm truly humbled by your kind words...plight was recorded with a really crappy dean acoustic with a pick-up under the saddle, but I also mic-ed it with mxl v67 at about the 14th fret...

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:07 am

spuddle,
You'd really think H&K would re-issue some of their earlier stuff. There are a few improvements - you can get an inexpensive attenuator from http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm that uses a real (silent) speaker motor as a load - plug the "speaker" out into the Weber attenuator with full attennuation, but take your direct out from the "Cabulator" jack. This gives you a reactive load instead of a passive load and I thought it was worth doing. There is also info on the web about bypassing the ss opamp on the input for an all tube signal path (but that would lower gain, so you might not be happy with that mod).

how to get that guitar tone