Most Awesome Sounding Chord Progressions Ever Vol 1

[nuffink]

And it wouldn't be E# and A#, the # just means to raise the scale degree by a half-step; Eb, when sharpened, becomes E, not E#.

What?

Whichever way you choose to look at it, i-#iii-i-#vi cannot be Cmin-Emin-Cmin-Amin

[nuffink]

It can be, but that secondary dominant isn't going to function too well without a seventh on it.

Have you even TRIED the progression? That's completely untrue.

Once or twice.

[Toxikator]

I think my example (edited into that post) demonstrates that it works just fine without the IIm7.

And i-#iii-i-#vi IS Cmin-Emin-Cmin-Amin, think about it.

What would be diatonic?

i-III-i-VI (Cmin-EbMaj-Cmin-AbMaj)

What would be all minor chords?

i-iii-i-vi (Cmin-Ebmin-Cmin-Abmin)

What would be all minor chords on RAISED mediant and submediant degrees?

i-#iii-i-#vi (here, the # means that the scale degree of the iii is raised by a half-step)

[nuffink]

I think I see your problem...

What would be diatonic?

i-III-i-VI (Cmin-EbMaj-Cmin-AbMaj)

Cmin-EbMaj-Cmin-AbMaj might well be diatonic to C Harmonic Minor but the romans are always referenced to Major so the progression is i - bIII - i - bVI

[Sascha Franck]

Im - IIIm is wrong because it assumes the third scale degree, I want a raised third scale degree.

Ok, I know that you want a major third scale degree.
But, in that case, before starting your analysis, you would have to "define" which scale/tonality you were dealing with in the first place. So, your tonic is Cmin. Fine. But which Cmin is that? Äolian? Harmonic? Melodic? Dorian? Etc...
With your #vi you seem to assume that each minor tonic chord should be treated as äolian or harmonic minor for analysis tasks.
I'm not sure whether that's indeed the common way things are done - it might be, I simply don't know. But, following other analysis methods and chord naming conventions, it should be different.
When you analyse, say, intervals, a minor 6th, regardless of dealing with a minor or major chord, is always indexed as b6, whereas the major 6th is just indexed as 6.
The same goes for chord symbols. Even if your progression is, say, Cmin, G7, and even if you would usually use an Eb as an additional 13th on the G7 (harmonic minor dominant), you would still have to index it as b13.

In jazz analysis, the roman numbers are always following the assumption that the basic degrees/steps of a scale are numbered like in a plain major scale. So, in case there's a chord on the minor 6th degree of a scale, it will always be indexed, whereas a chord on the major 6th degree would never be indexed.
And, this is making perfect sense to me, especially with things using, say, a "dorian chord" as the tonic.

[Sascha Franck]

What would be diatonic?
i-III-i-VI (Cmin-EbMaj-Cmin-AbMaj)

Why would that be diatonic?
What if your Cmin was meant to be treated in dorian mode? Or in melodic minor mode?
In that case, Abj simply wouldn't be diatonic at all.

[Toxikator]

romans do NOT always reference major! they do if you start on "I" since it implies a major tonality but when you start on "i" it implies a minor tonality.

This is the roman numeral set for the natural minor scale:

i iio III iv v VI VII i

NOT

i iio bIII iv v bVI bVII

[Sascha Franck]

but the romans are always referenced to Major

Exactly my thoughts!

[Sascha Franck]

romans do NOT always reference major! they do if you start on "I" since it implies a major tonality but when you start on "i" it implies a minor tonality.

Which minor tonality then?
Äolian?
Dorian?
Melodic?
Harmonic?
Phrygian?

[nuffink]

romans do NOT always reference major! they do if you start on "I" since it implies a major tonality but when you start on "i" it implies a minor tonality.

This is the roman numeral set for the natural minor scale:

i iio III iv v VI VII i

NOT

i iio bIII iv v bVI bVII

Hey that's fascinating!

And wrong. But at least it explains some of the howlers you regularly make.

[Sascha Franck]

As said, I can only speak for jazz analysis (which is way more open to "modal tonics" than classical music), and in that case roman numbers are always refering to a major scale.
So even with a Cmin as your Im chord, you would have to analyze an Eb as bIII.

[Toxikator]

In jazz analysis, the roman numbers are always following the assumption that the basic degrees/steps of a scale are numbered like in a plain major scale.

But that's not the traditional way. here, the "i" implies that the minor scale analysis should be used. The ONLY exception to this rule is when analyzing the harmonic minor, it is acceptable to notate the 7th scale degree as viio and not #viio.

Every other time, the i implies the natural minor set of scale degrees and the I implies the major set of scale degrees. #s and bs are used to indicate increase or decrease of root notes, and uppercase/lowercase to indicate chord quality (with the o and + symbols for diminished and augmented)

[nuffink]

In jazz analysis, the roman numbers are always following the assumption that the basic degrees/steps of a scale are numbered like in a plain major scale.

But that's not the traditional way.

Yes it is.

[Toxikator]

romans do NOT always reference major! they do if you start on "I" since it implies a major tonality but when you start on "i" it implies a minor tonality.

Which minor tonality then?
Äolian?
Dorian?
Melodic?
Harmonic?
Phrygian?

Those are all modalities.

as I said, it implies either the major or natural minor scale. All the others are nontraditional so the scale degrees are modified accordingly (except one case in the harmonic minor, which I already noted)

[Toxikator]

In jazz analysis, the roman numbers are always following the assumption that the basic degrees/steps of a scale are numbered like in a plain major scale.

But that's not the traditional way.

Yes it is.

No, it's the jazz way. NOT the traditional way.

Look, do I need to bust out some 101 course to prove this to you?

Make sure you read all the way to the part about the natural minor scale