MuTools

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:27 pm

Now that's a funny & interesting way to report bugs

Mmm, strange issue

Ah, but i got an idea of what could be the reason... will research it more tomorrow.

Thanks!

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:30 pm

OK, found the reason, fixed in Test C.

I also noticed that when saving multisample patches, the samples themselves were not saved with the patch, and so loading such patch resulted in empty zones. Oops

Also fixed in Test C.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:38 pm

On opening MU.LAB, the default song opens and I don't get the dialogue asking me whether I want to open the last tune or open a new session anymore. I had to save a new "new.musession" to make it work again.

Some gremlin still sitting in the saving/opening side of things...

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:40 pm

mutools wrote:OK, found the reason, fixed in Test C.

I also noticed that when saving multisample patches, the samples themselves were not saved with the patch, and so loading such patch resulted in empty zones. Oops

Also fixed in Test C.

Cool! Didn't notice the sample bug yet ....

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:01 pm

Sampla: Occasional ugly clicks when one note ends and another starts. Only very long release times really fix this.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:53 am

Bonteburg wrote:On opening MU.LAB, the default song opens and I don't get the dialogue asking me whether I want to open the last tune or open a new session anymore. I had to save a new "new.musession" to make it work again.

Some gremlin still sitting in the saving/opening side of things...

If you run a MU.LAB installation for the first time, it will automatically open the Demo.MuSession.

Once you open or save another file (just doing "New" is not enough), on next run you'll get that question which musession you want to open.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:58 am

Bonteburg wrote:Sampla: Occasional ugly clicks when one note ends and another starts. Only very long release times really fix this.

Are you sure it's not related to a 'normal' cpu overload?

You can have a detailed look on the cpu activity by clicking on the cpu meter, which makes it switch between different view modes:

* The default meter as graphical bar
* Avg = Average cpu load
* Max = Max cpu load
* O = Overload count
* FAvg = Average cpu load for the focussed plugin
* FMax = Max cpu load for the focussed plugin
* FO = Overload count for the focussed plugin

If it's not a normal cpu overload, then can you please send a musession which repeats the click?

Thanks.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:18 am

mutools wrote:
If you run a MU.LAB installation for the first time, it will automatically open the Demo.MuSession.

Once you open or save another file (just doing "New" is not enough), on next run you'll get that question which musession you want to open.

Nah, it wasn't that - I already had a New.Musession and it had worked for a week or so since I had started running Test B, but it must have gone off or something, so I had to save a fresh "new.musession" to make the system work again. I now get the dialogue on startup as before, but it definitely was broken yesterday.
Maybe it's about MU.LAB not sitting in my dock? strangely enough, the problem occured when my "recent items" menu in OSX had dumped MU.LAB. Could be a coincidence though.

---
About the clicking problem - it doesn't seem to be cpu overload, as long release times definitley fix it. it appears to me that if you underrun a certain release time (which can be long enough to make an audible tail in some cases) and let notes overlap you sometimes get the clicking. Imagine a release time set to 0.0 making the sample end click - it could be like that with a release time of 20, 50 or 60 ms provided your playing a few notes at once. In which case you have to set it to, say 120 ms and everything is click-free again (at the expense of tight note endings).

It's hard to put a finger on, it's like maybe the release time "regime" is too strict and unforgiving.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Bonteburg wrote:Nah, it wasn't that - I already had a New.Musession and it had worked for a week or so since I had started running Test B...

Then wasn't it just the fact that you started from a fresh installation.

Of course, then the everything is reset, unless you would have copied your "/Settings" files from Test A to Test B.

About the clicking problem - it doesn't seem to be cpu overload, as long release times definitley fix it. it appears to me that if you underrun a certain release time (which can be long enough to make an audible tail in some cases) and let notes overlap you sometimes get the clicking. Imagine a release time set to 0.0 making the sample end click - it could be like that with a release time of 20, 50 or 60 ms provided your playing a few notes at once. In which case you have to set it to, say 120 ms and everything is click-free again (at the expense of tight note endings).

It's hard to put a finger on, it's like maybe the release time "regime" is too strict and unforgiving.

Could you please send a MuSession that demonstrates this.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:02 pm

mutools wrote:
Bonteburg wrote:Nah, it wasn't that - I already had a New.Musession and it had worked for a week or so since I had started running Test B...
Then wasn't it just the fact that you started from a fresh installation.

-No no, here's what happened: When I installed Test B, I saved a new.musession right away and it was working just fine for several days.
The bug occured out of the blue only last night. MU.LAB kind of "thought" it was running for the first time when that wasn't the case.

-Going to cook up a clicky session for ya and send you it and the sample tonight

I'm pretty sure it's the way it handles release times, like it doesn't respect zero crossings or something.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:31 pm

Bonteburg wrote:-No no, here's what happened: When I installed Test B, I saved a new.musession right away and it was working just fine for several days.
The bug occured out of the blue only last night. MU.LAB kind of "thought" it was running for the first time when that wasn't the case.

Strange.

If it's repeatable, please let me know.

-Going to cook up a clicky session for ya and send you it and the sample tonight
I'm pretty sure it's the way it handles release times, like it doesn't respect zero crossings or something.

Alright, thanks!

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:29 pm

mutools wrote:
Bonteburg wrote:-No no, here's what happened: When I installed Test B, I saved a new.musession right away and it was working just fine for several days.
The bug occured out of the blue only last night. MU.LAB kind of "thought" it was running for the first time when that wasn't the case.
Strange.

If it's repeatable, please let me know.

my sense is that it's a pretty rare thing, nothing to lose sleep over. I'll let you know if and when it happens again!

---
Here's the session related to the clicking. It gets worse the more you turn the release down, which is a shame because sometimes you just want a really tight release.

In this example I could produce (rare) clicks with release times up to a few hundred ms.
I basically have make the release time long enough to play all of a sample to completely avoid them.

Really short release times like a few miliseconds can get kind of noisy. (or even 10 - 20 ms)

Release time of 0.0 ms always gives a click, but then I think that's to be expected.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/5/13/ ... .MuSession
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/5/13/ ... ion.backup

I hope I embedded the sample O.K. It's a cool feature!

I understand that the release strangeness doesn't constitute a severe bug, but I think it's worth looking into.

Marco

edit: Jo this is a little weird, I found out that the clicks only seem to appear

-at the beginning of a sequence / loop
-or at the first occasion after you drop in on the sequence with your mouse
during playback

Try it out. I'ts apparently something that only appears once in a sequence ...

edit#2: And it doesn't seem to appear when I'm playing music on my keyboard, only when playing back a piano roll sequence.

edit#3: having gaps in your sequence (ie not a continuous stream of notes like in my example) does seem to aggravate the clicking so that it happens throughout the sequence.

toxicoh · Post by **toxicoh** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:54 pm

I can hear the click in Bar 5 too. About 5:1 measures. Like you say, only on the first run of the loop.

I'm not smart enough to know what this means though.....

Good luck with it.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:35 pm

Good to know I'm not imagining things!
I'm not mch of an audio geek either...

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:37 pm

Yes, i hear it too, will research it deeper asap.

MuTools

KVR Audio

MU.LAB 2 Test B