KVR Audio

SuperFly76 · Post by **SuperFly76** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:06 am

zeep wrote:Anyone else uses multiple Buss plugin instances? I tried it and it can sound interesting. Seems weird though, as every Buss instance gets the complete mix from all the Channels. I mean, you can't just route a select group of Channels to a select Buss.

Just thinking out loud.

It doesn't work the way you're thinking. These plugins, like VCC, don't do the summing themselves. Your daw still does the summing. These plugins add things like saturation and crosstalk. Your DAW is still doing all the signal routing.

SuperFly76 · Post by **SuperFly76** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:07 am

aircargo wrote:Just found this thread. Sounds very interesting. Mac gets 64bit and not Windows? That's gotta be a first. That makes me sad. If there was x64 VST I'd probably be clicking the by link right now. For $39 that would be a no-brainer.

64 bit windows VST will be available in a week or two according to the dev.

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:09 am

aircargo wrote:So why do you have BOTH the buss and channel plugs on the busses?

Because your sub group Bus 1-3 of Drums/Bass/Strings will go eventually to the master bus. Buss4 is the 'Master Buss' which sums all the sub groups.

If you sent the Bus just to the master without the Buss plugin inserted, you would lose the analog summing magic that this plugin does.

That's at least my understanding.

lightsfadelow · Post by **lightsfadelow** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:11 am

Dalor: I don't think that's how it could work unless the plugin bypasses the DAW's summing. If it did, you'd have to tell the plugin which buss plugin to route to in each instance of the channel strip.

Neverthless I'm excited about this plug. Can't wait until the x64 releases this week.

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:16 am

aircargo wrote:Dalor: I don't think that's how it could work unless the plugin bypasses the DAW's summing. If it did, you'd have to tell the plugin which buss plugin to route to in each instance of the channel strip.

VCC does exactly what you describe: for each channel plugin you need to select which bus plugin you send the channel to (1-9).

However, Satson might not require this, I don't know. Would be good if someone could clarify.

lightsfadelow · Post by **lightsfadelow** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:23 am

Hmmmm... VCC feels like a sham to me every time I hear them talk about it. Slate specifically said in an earlier thread that they do NOT bypass the summing of the DAW and do their own summing. Too much smoke & mirrors with the Slate crew.

Mercado_Negro · Post by **Mercado_Negro** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 am

aircargo wrote:Is there crosstalk emulated in the channel VST when used on a stereo track?

No.

Please read my post above yours on page 3

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:29 am

aircargo wrote:Hmmmm... VCC feels like a sham to me every time I hear them talk about it. Slate specifically said in an earlier thread that they do NOT bypass the summing of the DAW and do their own summing. Too much smoke & mirrors with the Slate crew.

Huh, no plugin can 'bypass' the DAW internals summing process, it's actually just an ADD that *all* DAW's do(channel1+channel2). If you think VCC is a sham then this would be too

SuperFly76 · Post by **SuperFly76** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:36 am

dalor wrote:
aircargo wrote:Dalor: I don't think that's how it could work unless the plugin bypasses the DAW's summing. If it did, you'd have to tell the plugin which buss plugin to route to in each instance of the channel strip.
VCC does exactly what you describe: for each channel plugin you need to select which bus plugin you send the channel to (1-9).

However, Satson might not require this, I don't know. Would be good if someone could clarify.

I had some back and forth with Steven Slate about this when VCC was being developed and he and Fabrice stated that VCC is NOT bypassing the mixer. Fabrice said that the CPU consumption would be through the roof to do that. Weird.

I don't own VCC but I can state with certainty that Satson isn't bypassing the mixer. I 'm pretty sure that VCC isn't either. I wouldn't want to bypass my daw's mixer anyway. Satson adds all those non linearities and crosstalk to my daw's mixer making it act like a console. I love it!!!!

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:38 am

i wonder if you set up enough busses, like have every two channels go to a bus then you could set a buss plug on each one so that every two channels will stereo crosstalk into each other. then if you sum those through a few more busses with different combinations of tracks going into them, to get different kinds of crosstalk.

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:44 am

No one claimed any of these plugins would bypass your internal's DAW mixing process.

Fact is, all DAW's simply ADD. If you know that, a sender/receiver plugin that talk to each other can then manipulate this fact afterwards - which is similar to replacing your DAW's internal adding. Anyhow, as long it sounds good and does what it's advertised, its all cool

Mercado_Negro · Post by **Mercado_Negro** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:49 am

I think there's no way to bypass your DAW mixer

These plug-ins just add saturation, non-linear behaviors, etc., to your signal(s), that's all.

Using a SatSon Channel/VCC Channel and a SatSon Buss/VCC MixBuss in each Buss or the Master is overkill and pretty much pointless since it would be like routing everything to a console channel (useless in 99% of real consoles since all channels are... well, mono) and then to a Buss Group or Master.

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:55 am

i know it doesnt change daw routing.

im just say if you have 8 guitar tracks, maybe run tracks 1,3 into a buss, 2, 4 into a buss, 5 and 7 into a buss, 6 and 8 into buss. then you would have all those crosstalks.

would be kinda cool.

Mercado_Negro · Post by **Mercado_Negro** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:02 am

@midnight wrote:im just say if you have 8 guitar tracks, maybe run tracks 1,3 into a buss, 2, 4 into a buss, 5 and 7 into a buss, 6 and 8 into buss. then you would have all those crosstalks.

would be kinda cool.

Sure, that would be cool and I do it myself (with each pair of doubled guitars).

lightsfadelow · Post by **lightsfadelow** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:07 am

I agree that neither VCC nor Satson is bypassing the DAW's summing. Satson doesn't imply that it does. But here's what Slate says on its website: "Now in 2011, Slate once again stirs up the analog summing world, this time in the digital domain."

Anyway, if someone with VCC could try this, I'd appreciate it:

Set up a single channel with Slate's VCC Channel. Set up a buss with VCC buss. Apparently according to this thread, you can say what channels map to a buss, so link the single channel plugin to the buss. BUT, don't actually send the output to that buss. Instead, send the output of the channel to another muted buss. So all you have unmuted is the buss with VCC's buss VST on it and silence routed into it. (If you want, you could also make another track with a pure sine wave head into that buss.) Now... render. Is there anything coming out of that buss from the channel with VCC channel that is sent to a muted buss? If there really is some sort of value to the linking, you'd expect to hear some bleed or crosstalk from that channel.

Anyay, we're gettig a bit off topic here...

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