KVR Audio

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:55 pm

IIRs wrote:
Kim Lajoie wrote:Because when I came along we weren't talking about intersample peaks.
Yes we were!

My first post in this thread was the seventh reply - halfway down the first page.

-Kim.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:01 pm

Yes I know. The thread is about how much headroom to leave when mastering, ie: intersample peaks.

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:04 pm

-1.0dBfs to -0.3dBfs depending on a number of things. Regular scenario -0.3dBfs FWIW

All the best to all

Dean

Integratron · Post by **Integratron** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:50 pm

IIRs wrote:

(Other ISP and K-scale meters are available)

That was teriffic Dan, thanks for all the great tutorial videos you do... they are the best!

jobromedia · Post by **jobromedia** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:58 pm

Bronto Scorpio wrote:Always -0.3dB.
I have no reason for that though, it's just a habit.

Cheers
Dennis

Sounds rather exact to me, so how do you measure -0.3 dB then?

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:03 pm

jobromedia wrote:
Bronto Scorpio wrote:Always -0.3dB.
I have no reason for that though, it's just a habit.

Cheers
Dennis
Sounds rather exact to me, so how do you measure -0.3 dB then?

I export my track as wave, import it again, normalize it to -0.3db, done!
Or I use a limiter and set it's celling to -0.3db.

Cheers
Dennis

SadPuppyBlues · Post by **SadPuppyBlues** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:37 pm

IIRs wrote:I can accept that you might have artistic reasons to go for a very loud and distorted master, and to accept high ISP levels as a consequence. But I can't imagine what artistic reasons you would have to aim for high ISP levels, or in other words, to deliberately engineer an album that distorts when played on an iPod, but not when played on a high end CD player. The other way around perhaps...

If the thread was a general one about production techniques your comment might be apposite. But this thread is specifically about how much margin to leave, and the correct answer is "use an ISP meter".

I see where the split between you guys is.

In Kim's example, the ISP doesn't matter since the master is gonna be distorting either way. You don't have to imagine why someone would aim for high ISP levels because they're pushing way beyond that.

It's an example where "use an ISP meter" isn't the correct answer.

EDIT:
I feel like I was being dismissive with this post.
Actually I finally get the K system and I had no idea about ISP metering before your posts. Thanks for that.

yairhol · Post by **yairhol** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:09 am

IIRs wrote:Yes I know. The thread is about how much headroom to leave when mastering, ie: intersample peaks.

No it's not. YOU do it that way. I don't. Kim doesn't. Others don't. Some do.
So this thread is not about intersample peaks but about how much do you master to. When the OP said "how much do YOU master to" he didn't mean IIRs but anybody who wants to join the discussion.

risome · Post by **risome** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:00 am

Plain and simple for me .I mix down to -6db and then master to 0db or as close as i can.I record my mix to a new audio track in LIVE then copy and paste that track to a new arrangement(no export).I then put my devices on that audio channel(usually a utility with dc offset on, followed by an eq then 2 more utilities with subtle gain boost in each one.( i figure 2 devices boosting a bit each is better than 1 with a moderate boost).I make send track and on it i place a eq with all but the high frequencies coming through and send a small amount to it.I make another send and on it i place an overdrive with the filters open and a small amount of drive once agin sending a small amount to it.Then on my master channel a limiter set to 0db and push the gain hard cause electronic music is loud by nature.Less oversampling on the master that way.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:04 am

Just so I don't get painted as a metalhead, sometimes I actually do master lower than 0dBfs and I do pay attention to intersample peaks. I do it that way for projects that can't tolerate any distortion, and require a smooth clean sound. Often they're the more sparse and dynamic projects.

-Kim.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:48 am

yairhol wrote:
IIRs wrote:Yes I know. The thread is about how much headroom to leave when mastering, ie: intersample peaks.
No it's not. YOU do it that way. I don't. Kim doesn't. Others don't. Some do.
So this thread is not about intersample peaks but about how much do you master to. When the OP said "how much do YOU master to" he didn't mean IIRs but anybody who wants to join the discussion.

What other possible reason could you have to limit to less than 0dBFS?

HanafiH · Post by **HanafiH** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:05 am

+[-0.3dBfs]

[h+]3

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:29 am

IIRs wrote:What other possible reason could you have to limit to less than 0dBFS?

The audio could have a low enough crest factor (and the target loudness is low enough) that you don't need to limit...

-Kim.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:29 am

So you are saying that not needing to limit at all is a good reason to limit to less than full scale? That doesn't make any sense.

Assuming you are using a limiter (otherwise why ask the question?) the only reason to set the ceiling any lower than 0dBFS is to allow room for ISPs, whether you realised that was why you were doing it or not.

Thefoldstudios · Post by **Thefoldstudios** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:31 am

-0.2dB for me. No real reason other than most pro mastering engineers I've seen seem to master up to either there or -0.3dB for pop/rock stuff.

Where do you "master" to? (what dB)