Softube Summit Audio TLA-100A

[Lenticular]

Compressing half a db? That's nothing though, I need to compress 3-10db on channels and 2-4 on the mix bus. What exactly is half a db of compression going to do when you are trying to control dynamics?

Not trying to be argumentative but real world usage is def gonna be more than half a db.

1/2 db using hw comps of this type is 'Real World' recording usage.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Well using a Tubetech CL-1B i can happily and have happily used one and also a pair doing less than a dB with very satisfactory results. I have never used a Summit TLA-100A so can not comment on it as i do not know what the original is about/how it handles stuff. No desire to demo it either as my money/budget is nil so i do not want to like anything that costs or i may have to have it and ruin a carefully balanced shopping list. U87 into 1073 into CL-1B doing not much but still a little is a good setup on most vocalist i find FWIW (the better the vocalist's technique at the mic = the less amount of gain reduction used) as they will by nature tilt/back away instinctively from the mic depending on track to control thier dyamics to some degree (especially if they are well practised with the rest of the band/have played the tracks live for a while). I like working with those sort but it ain't always so damned easy

[@midnight]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix. I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums. Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

[Fritze]

Compressing half a db? That's nothing though, I need to compress 3-10db on channels and 2-4 on the mix bus. What exactly is half a db of compression going to do when you are trying to control dynamics?

Not trying to be argumentative but real world usage is def gonna be more than half a db.

This kind of compressing is for adding character and not for taming dynamics that call for heavier action.

[bmanic]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix. I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums. Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

Note that compressors are not usually the main reason commercial pop albums sound so "controlled" (can be confused with compressed as it kind of is a similar thing), at least not in my experience. The engineer is doing a lot of automation.

A typical electric bass guitar is indeed compressed quite a lot even before it hits the DAW but once there automation usually takes over. A professional mixing engineer will note all places where the notes are "off", where they sound too loud or too soft. With some simple automation, usually just volume automation but sometimes also EQ automation, the engineer can bring the track under control.

This kind of controlled sound is easier to do with automation and is usually more reliable. It's a bit more work but in the end it's probably worth it. You'll anyhow do a lot of automation to bring life to the track so why not do a controlled first pass?

The final key to the squashed puzzle comes from mastering. The average volume of a track will rise significantly during mastering, as we all know and thus add to the "controlled" sound of a commercial record.

.. at least this has been my experience so far. Automation over compression for that professional "controlled" sound. In the end, both do kind of the same thing but with compressors you usually change the internal "micro" dynamics of a sound as well. While with automation you get infinite amount of control and can thus retain the sounds and vocal phrases internal dynamics.

So in short: Don't be lazy. Automate stuff folks!

Cheers!
bManic

[meloco_go]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix.

Need? C'mon, no I'm not a purist and would often compress things A LOT myself, but n_e_e_d?

I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums.

Maybe that's because the player s*cks? Or you need to pick another compressor?

Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

Yep. And equally often less.

[@midnight]

I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums.

Maybe that's because the player s*cks? Or you need to pick another compressor?.

It has nothing to do with the playing, I'm talking about the envelope of the signal, the bass has a lot of attack and it decays really fast, probably because it's D.I. so in order to get the bass to just sit flat in the pocket I'm often compressing 10dB on the channel, in addition to 2:1 on the mix buss and then whatever limiting when I master it. This is bread and butter stuff, nothing out of the ordinary. (edit: i also tend to dial in a ton of high end presence on my bass, so the resulting file is even spikier, thus necessitating even more compression)

And the SSL compressors (channel or bus comp) are both fantastic bass compressors.

And, anyways, my point is, the test of a good compressor is how it sounds doing lots of gain reduction.

Take for example the 1176.. it's hard to get *less* than 5-7dB compression out of that thing, it just clamps down really fast.

So I'm simply saying... 1/2dB.. yes, that's a good way to check out the character of the unit, the "sonic imprint" ... but I'd really like to hear the action of the compressor working.

So enough talk, somebody hook it up to a drum buss and slam 20dB of gain reduction and post results plz fast and slow settings plz

[meloco_go]

It has nothing to do with the playing, I'm talking about the envelope of the signal, the bass has a lot of attack and it decays really fast, probably because it's D.I.

How come it is not the player??? Where it picks/fingers vs pick/how hard he picks/instrument etc.
Yeah, DI would tend to magnify that character. Maybe you better try something like tube/tape saturation to flatten transients a bit.

And the SSL compressors (channel or bus comp) are both fantastic bass compressors.

Yes, but maybe not for t_h_i_s particular case? Maybe in t_h_i_s case you need something faster like 1176 you mention?

And, anyways, my point is, the test of a good compressor is how it sounds doing lots of gain reduction.

But WHY? It's like saying that the test of a good car is how it does a lap in anger on a TopGear test track. Sure, why not, but what about Jeep Wrangler or Rolls-Royce?

So I'm simply saying... 1/2dB.. yes, that's a good way to check out the character of the unit, the "sonic imprint" ... but I'd really like to hear the action of the compressor working.

But what if it really does something amazing at that 1/2dB? It's just different facets of usage. Maybe you won't like it @20dB GR at all, but @3dB it does something special that nothing else does?

[@midnight]

Its all good dude

[Fritze]

Its all good dude

Yes it is.

And I would like to hear some serious slamming with this comp, too.

[hibidy]

btw, 4damind, thank you for doing that

[drakem]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix. I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums. Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

wow
i've learned something today...what are you producing? brick wavs?

[kmonkey]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix. I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums. Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

wow
i've learned something today...what are you producing? brick wavs?

That's pure touche

[Bronto Scorpio]

Vocal tracks and bass guitar need lots of compression, often 20db or more to get it to sit in the pocket of a dense mix. I use ssl comp on bass guitar to compress 10dB and the file is still more dynamic than what you hear on commercial pop albums. Lead vocals in rock and hip hop are very often doing 20db gain reduction.

wow
i've learned something today...what are you producing? brick wavs?

That's pure touche

[hibidy]

I've told you before, if it doesn't look like this



You are NOT trying hard enough!