Choosing between Bitwig and Ableton

[elxsound]

These two programs really are great. I've said before that I can't wait to see Bitwig complete, but can't touch until at least version 2.

I'm sure the v2 of Bitwig will be class...

But I don't agree with your, 'can't be touched until then' rule. Bitwig is as complete as every other DAW is. IE - Not complete, but they all can produce top class music and all have advantages and disadvantages.

I really don't understand the fandom that's come with Bitwig

Hmmm.... I'd say the same about Ableton. In my opinion S1 V3 is a lot better. You say 'X' and I say 'Y' that's how this goes right?

No. Not how it goes, but that's just how you read it.

Try reading again and see if you come to the same conclusion (for the impatient, read my final 2 paragraphs).

[elxsound]

I get it Robmobius, you read this and stopped. Defensive much?

I really don't understand the fandom that's come with Bitwig, but Reaper was the same way.

If you had continued you would find I'm actually quite neutral on the issue:

The thing about using a DAW is agreeing to work within its limitations. Every DAW has them and this affects workflow. Workflow is everything, but when you are starting out this is the process you are just beginning to develop, so it's hard to suggest what works for me, or someone else will work for you.

And going further... A bit of advice based on the initial OP's statement, as well as the statement that's he's decided to go with Bitwig, provided he doesn't find Live Suite cheap.

I can say that if part of the concern about using Bitwig over Live Suite is that it doesn't come with as much content, then not to worry. Having less right now is probably a good thing. Too many distractions can stunt your progress. This is true unless you decide that using/creating with Max 4 Live is part of what you determine to be your progress.

It is helpful to read through a post if you plan on slamming it.

[Robmobius]

These two programs really are great. I've said before that I can't wait to see Bitwig complete, but can't touch until at least version 2.

I'm sure the v2 of Bitwig will be class...

But I don't agree with your, 'can't be touched until then' rule. Bitwig is as complete as every other DAW is. IE - Not complete, but they all can produce top class music and all have advantages and disadvantages.

I really don't understand the fandom that's come with Bitwig

Hmmm.... I'd say the same about Ableton. In my opinion S1 V3 is a lot better. You say 'X' and I say 'Y' that's how this goes right?

No. Not how it goes, but that's just how you read it.

Try reading again and see if you come to the same conclusion (for the impatient, read my final 2 paragraphs).

I've read them properly... And I agree with what you've said (mostly). That's not what I have a problem with per se.

I'm asking why you don't understand the fan base that has developed around Bitwig? Especially since the latest updates.

I mean the first iteration of Bitwig was a disappointment, I don't think anyone could really dispute that. But it's probably the best thing that happened. It went beyond the failed hype and snuck in the back door with update after update.

But from then on it's been up and up, and has gathered a fairly large user base. And more to come, but every DAW dev say that. But I think BW's devs have made good on their promises so far.

I'm sure Ableton didn't see that coming, but hey... That's better for the consumer, right?

Also you implied that BW is less complete. Is it any less complete then any other DAW?

[Robmobius]

I get it Robmobius, you read this and stopped. Defensive much?

Defensive... You should have read my previous post. You were too early to reply. I think it is you who are a tad 'defensive'. Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Like I said, I'm only interested in two of your comments (or three). My 'XY' comment only refers that we are talking in opinions only - which I wanted to emphasize.

EDIT: I'm actually quite ambivalent to Ableton or any other DAW for that matter. I said, that any DAW will do the trick. Maybe you didn't read that either??

[elxsound]

These two programs really are great. I've said before that I can't wait to see Bitwig complete, but can't touch until at least version 2.

I'm sure the v2 of Bitwig will be class...

But I don't agree with your, 'can't be touched until then' rule. Bitwig is as complete as every other DAW is. IE - Not complete, but they all can produce top class music and all have advantages and disadvantages.

I really don't understand the fandom that's come with Bitwig

Hmmm.... I'd say the same about Ableton. In my opinion S1 V3 is a lot better. You say 'X' and I say 'Y' that's how this goes right?

No. Not how it goes, but that's just how you read it.

Try reading again and see if you come to the same conclusion (for the impatient, read my final 2 paragraphs).

I've read them properly... And I agree with what you've said (mostly). That's not what I have a problem with per se.

I'm asking why you don't understand the fan base that has developed around Bitwig? Especially since the latest updates.

I mean the first iteration of Bitwig was a disappointment, I don't think anyone could really dispute that. But it's probably the best thing that happened. It went beyond the failed hype and snuck in the back door with update after update.

But from then on it's been up and up, and has gathered a fairly large user base. And more to come, but every DAW dev say that. But I think BW's devs have made good on their promises so far.

I'm sure Ableton didn't see that coming, but hey... That's better for the consumer, right?

Also you implied that BW is less complete. Is it any less complete then any other DAW?

For my use, yes it is incomplete. No video support until version 2, so again for my use which I can admit the way I wrote may have sounded as though generally speaking, but I meant to say for my needs, it is incomplete.

Otherwise, yes we are saying the same thing... Every DAW has its limitations and while not posted in my most recent comment here, I've said many times that this is great for both Ableton and Bitwig users (but not limited to of course). The advancements from both companies is absolutely great for their respective users.

But again... No I don't understand the fandom. I find it ridiculous at times, but I accept that it exists. I use so many different hosts for very specific reasons and I don't have any personal attachment to seeing someone else use what I do. I am always excited to see advancements made in other programs, because it benefits everyone. I love what I've seen in S1 v3... Not so much that I'll personally switch, but I love that they show there's room to grow in terms of what any DAW can offer in terms of workflow.

[elxsound]

I get it Robmobius, you read this and stopped. Defensive much?

Defensive... You should have read my previous post. You were too early to reply. I think it is you who are a tad 'defensive'. Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Like I said, I'm only interested in two of your comments (or three). My 'XY' comment only refers that we are talking in opinions only - which I wanted to emphasize.

EDIT: I'm actually quite ambivalent to Ableton or any other DAW for that matter. I said, that any DAW will do the trick. Maybe you didn't read that either??

I think you and I probably agree too much on too many points to carry on a flame war so call it good unless I missed something.

[Robmobius]

I get it Robmobius, you read this and stopped. Defensive much?

Defensive... You should have read my previous post. You were too early to reply. I think it is you who are a tad 'defensive'. Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Like I said, I'm only interested in two of your comments (or three). My 'XY' comment only refers that we are talking in opinions only - which I wanted to emphasize.

EDIT: I'm actually quite ambivalent to Ableton or any other DAW for that matter. I said, that any DAW will do the trick. Maybe you didn't read that either??

I think you and I probably agree too much on too many points to carry on a flame war so call it good unless I missed something.

Yeah mate we are all good... As you say we are pretty much on the same page. So, I totally get that it's not suitable for your specific needs (like any other DAW depending on the user).

My reaction for the fanbase comment was really just saying that, I remember that huge post by Ableton users who were slinging mud at Bitwig (in a thread about Bitwig's). They just chucked out 'cat bombs' instead of talking about Bitwig features in a meaningful way (and it went on forever).

So my snipe was not directly at you at all (apologies if it seemed that way). I was having a pop at certain rabid 'Ableton fans'. I'm sure it can be said of certain BW guys too.

We are good mate, ta' for clearing that up and I hope I did as well.

[Tonberry]

But again... No I don't understand the fandom. I find it ridiculous at times, but I accept that it exists.

People always love to identify themselves with something and become emotional about it. On the other hand, it's definitely nice for them that they have an environment that they honestly enjoy working with. It must be completely different to open a program with enthusiasm than look at its icon in disgust and say under the nose "@#$^... more work...". For me, unfortunately, no program suits my workflow, no shoe just feels right so I don't know how if feels

[Lejurai]

IMO ableton is kinda simplified workhorse that gives you more power according on how much money you put in it. Bitwig is more of a choice of an artist, and it gives you everything immediately without any need to put hundreds of your currency to more expensive editions, packs, etc etc..

I sold my ableton and bought bitwig (actually from here kvr marketplace) and I have no regrets.

[D N A]

I use Ableton Suite 8 Live. Few months ago I planned to update but then, the truth is that I don't use almost anything from this huge sample library, native plugins (ok, I use compressor , maybe some delay) and reading this topic i started to wonder - I generally like Ableton Live workflow, but if I use 90 % of external plugins, do I really need Ableton live ? The more plugins I use, the more hmm slow, heavy it gets (latency ? automation out of sync ?).

Is the Bitwig workflow similar more to Ableton Live or to for example FL Studio ? Is someone switched from Ableton Live to Bitwig - do you miss anything ?

[ThomasHelzle]

I use Ableton Suite 8 Live. Few months ago I planned to update but then, the truth is that I don't use almost anything from this huge sample library, native plugins (ok, I use compressor , maybe some delay) and reading this topic i started to wonder - I generally like Ableton Live workflow, but if I use 90 % of external plugins, do I really need Ableton live ? The more plugins I use, the more hmm slow, heavy it gets (latency ? automation out of sync ?).

Is the Bitwig workflow similar more to Ableton Live or to for example FL Studio ? Is someone switched from Ableton Live to Bitwig - do you miss anything ?

I'd say: Try the demo.
I was in a similar situation, didn't use much of Suite 8's internal libraries and effects, use mostly VSTs, didn't like the Live 9 update, sold Live, got Bitwig Studio, went much more productive.

Workflow is similar in structure but actually much better for what I do, more flexible.
You get more freedom in many areas.

But you have to try yourself to see if the differences are beneficial or not for your specific needs.

Cheers,

Tom

[Lejurai]

Is the Bitwig workflow similar more to Ableton Live or to for example FL Studio ? Is someone switched from Ableton Live to Bitwig - do you miss anything ?

For me the workflow is similar, but ableton is kinda "easier"/faster. And bitwig even when it's fast, I quite often find myself digging deeper and deeper and my streamlined makesongmakesongmakesong turns in to a journey to unknown, discovering never heard sounds(capes).

Ableton in all it's simplicity kinda forces to work fast. Though I didn't have max 4 live.

What I like in Bitwig is (well, that depth of course), that the automation envelopes snap to grid, you can view several midi or audio clips at the same time (like fl studios ghost notes), you have kinda extra clip launcher next to sequencer etc etc. Gives lot of options for workflow. And of course, the modulation possibilities.

FLS then.. I found the workflow to be a bit pain in the ass. Lots of easy things done overly complicated.

[Dearly Deported]

Live 8 was my first DAW, and I upgraded to Live 9. Used for 3 years, was never satisfied. I decided to check out other DAWs, and with what I know now, Ableton Live feels weak.

While it has some nice toys, and inspired some of the awesome features you see in most DAWs now, I think there are better options no matter what you're looking for.

I'm also a newish Bitwig user, and I'm happier with it than I ever was with Live. It just makes much more sense, and the view from here on out looks great. By v2 or 3, it could be my only DAW.

The only things I miss from Live are Operator, Collision (which is available as a 3rd party VST) Sampler, the audio-to-MIDI (though it was far from perfect), and the grain FX. But that's not enough reason to keep it, so my Live 9 Suite will be up for sale once I'm done salvaging my old projects. It's a good thing Push works so great with Bitwig, I don't have to sell it.

[stillnotregistering]

After a good deal of research it came time for me to buy my first DAW. I've been a keyboardist for a very long time (real piano and fake) and got into MIDI and such before there were DAW's.

I was initially drawn to Ableton Live and was pretty sure I would buy it as it seemed to suit my creative style. I got a free copy of AL9 Lite with my AI and began using it. At about the same time I downloaded the demo of BWS and had an opportunity to compare. I used a single plugin, UVI/Ravenscroft275 on both.

Even if AL9 hadn't kept crashing ... every . single . day ... I would have still gone with BWS. I found BWS easier and more intuitive to learn, and it was more fun. For what I want to do and the way I want to do it, BWS came out the winner. It has never even burped, much less crashed. Granted, I haven't stressed it much, but I didn't do anything that should have caused AL9 to crash. I would close it properly at night, next morning it won't load at all, without even supplying a clue as to why. The only solution is to uninstall/reinstall ... every . single . day ...

Other reasons I chose BWS: German based. Responsive company, based on forums. Future features look good and useful (online collaboration). Native 64 bit coding from the ground up, unlike older 32 bit DAWs that had to be 'modernized' (including AL9 I assume). BWS plugins run in separate memory, crash protection. BWS comes complete at $250, by far, the best price per pound, imo. Allows audio/MIDI on same track. The bounce feature will get a lot of use. I like the detailed MIDI editing ... I could go on but my opinions are still those of a DAW noob, so I won't waste everyone's time.

I'll let you know down the road how things are shaping up.

Stay well.

[arca0]

As I said previously, I went with BWS. I have been playing around with it for the last few weeks and am really, really happy. The basic, most used features are intuitive enough and I did not need to dig deep to figure them out. And the more advanced features are still accessible. The user guide is great, covering everything I wanted to know. The architecture of the program is great too - with separate processes for the sound engine, plugins and the environment. Got a blue screen once when I was loading Kontakt, but the project was recovered and I did not lose anything from what I worked on. The workflow is great. It's a solid tool, I didn't even bother waiting for the AL9 trial to expire.