All new guis are sucking valuable resources

[EvilDragon]

Well, then, an issue between a particular GPU and FLS that doesn't manifest on other DAWs?

[stardustmedia]

It so obviously looks like a FLS problem.

No noticeable issues with Diva here, using FL Studio 12.1 with 8 GB RAM and internal graphics.

It's not obvious to me.

Now it should be

[gentleclockdivider]

I am afraid that vector graphics are a pretty tough sell, still. They might work with fancy gradients and stuff but rendering those is ultimately more CPU consuming than just blitting bitmaps.

However, we're experimenting a lot. We'll do some testing and I think we'll have some polls at some point.

Can you elaborate a little? I use some Melda plugs and they have a mode for GPU acceleration, where the graphics card handles the GUI. And they are freely resizable...however, Melda plug-ins are simply not as luscious looking as Hive!

Let me ask it this way: How close are we to beautifully rendered, 3D photo-realistic GUIs that are as easy to stretch and resize like an elastic band?

My stance: Vector graphics are only good for performance when rendered on the GPU and when flat (2D). Flat vector graphics don't sell, with the single (!) exeption of Ableton Live. Another exception may be Fabfilter, but they go through lengths to make their stuff look more interesting than fully flat stuff. Both companies have nailed 2D vector graphics by creating their individual style.

3D vector graphics are possible, but may be as CPU taxing as bitmap graphics if they are supposed to look right. They require a magnifold of development time. Expect product cycles and updates to take twice the time.

Nicely done bitmap graphics sell. Because this is what people want. Hence we do nicely done bitmap graphics. And also because I simply don't like flat stuff.

Using non vector graphics as a selling point , assuming vector graphics don't sell .
Hmm ..strange thinking from a highly skilled developer like you .
Yes, graphics are important , but not everybody has a fetish for candy/sugarcane colours available in a gazillion sizes etc
Some examples of flat vector graphics that do seLL : vallhala ubermod
Madrona labs aalto .
Max/msp which uses the juce frame work
Cytomic ' the glue ' shows that vector graphics cane be sexy too , and don't introduce overhead .

Don't get me wrong bazille's interface is a fantasic gui done by a highly skilled designer ..

[gentleclockdivider]

I understand the OP's concern, somehow.

But before I hit any GUI-related performance or RAM issue, the CPU hits long time before, because those mentioned plugins (for instance running in god of all divas-mode) need a lot of performance.

Nevertheless if there is already an option for smaller GUI sizes and/or other skins, maybe resource light skin/GUI could be a very nice customer friendly option.

Yes they do ...so do some reaktor ensembnles but purely for audio and NOt for graphics .
That's my whole point , I have an old laptop , using bazille in poly mode /playing lot's of voices in not possible , but the same can be said for any other HI, Quality synth .
In the latter case , I know that my cpu is brought to it's knees because it's calculating Samples and Not RGB/opacity etc.. values

[Photontic]

That's my whole point , I have an old laptop

The world moves forward and as computers become more powerful, so does the software that uses them. More CPU power available means that developers will take advantage of that. If they didn't we'd stand still. This is how software development works.

If you have an old laptop and are running into issues, then perhaps the solution would be to start looking into upgrading? As software moves forward and gets more demanding, your laptop will just become slower and slower (so to speak). You got to keep up.

Now it of course sucks that your issue has come through an update, which could be related to the GUI rendering. Again, the world moves forward with high DPI displays and so on, which requires higher resolution graphics to not look like crap, which will be more taxing to deal with - but not something a somewhat up-to-date computer will care about really.

Not trying to shoot down your case here, just trying to provide another point which is that software gets optimized to use less resouces, yes, but it also gets upgraded to use more, because that's how it works.

[RedChameau]

UHE has already done an awesome work on their GUIs. They're resizable, CPU hit is insignificant in regard to the overall synth engine, when most other vst, and especially synths, still don't have proper resizing features.
Also, the skinning potential is demential and ranges from simple color tuning to whole redesign.
As for vectorial drawing, Calling upon Meldaproduction effects is counter productive since they rank among the ugliest plugins of this little audio world.

Anyway, what's at stakes is TIME. Time is a very limited Resource and in the end, what we all wish to see in the near future is new sound design opportunities, everything else can wait.

[Elektronisch]

Image-Line synth plugins are Bitmap based, they run smooth without slowdowns. Harmor, Harmless and so on. Maybe theres something more in that then bitmaps only?

[Urs]

Some examples of flat vector graphics that do seLL :

I don't have those sales numbers, but I need to feed 12 people and their families. Every month, all year, every year.

[Urs]

Image-Line synth plugins are Bitmap based, they run smooth without slowdowns. Harmor, Harmless and so on. Maybe theres something more in that then bitmaps only?

Not resizable maybe. Not cross platform maybe. Not multiple plug-in formats available maybe. Not skinnable maybe. Dunno.

There can be a gazillion factors.

[aMUSEd]

Image-Line synth plugins are Bitmap based, they run smooth without slowdowns. Harmor, Harmless and so on. Maybe theres something more in that then bitmaps only?

Not on Mac they don't, the guis are very sluggish so they are probably relying a lot on Windows graphics acceleration. Also they do not have hires versions.

[Grizzellda]

Calling upon Meldaproduction effects is counter productive since they rank among the ugliest plugins of this little audio world.

Talking about Melda stuff is not counterproductive whatsoever, and I find them pleasant...

UHE has already done an awesome work on their GUIs.

And I agree! Hive & Diva look & sound beautiful.

But hey, Melda plugs are designed to be practical to use...once you learn your way around, that is.

[Aerithos]

Image-Line synth plugins are Bitmap based, they run smooth without slowdowns. Harmor, Harmless and so on. Maybe theres something more in that then bitmaps only?

Not resizable maybe. Not cross platform maybe. Not multiple plug-in formats available maybe. Not skinnable maybe. Dunno.

There can be a gazillion factors.

Yeah, the included versions of Image-Line's flagship plugins are written in Delphi as a native FL plugin, so they skip the entire VST architecture. They are also not resizable, not cross platform, and not skinnable. However:

Image-Line synth plugins are Bitmap based, they run smooth without slowdowns. Harmor, Harmless and so on. Maybe theres something more in that then bitmaps only?

Not on Mac they don't, the guis are very sluggish so they are probably relying a lot on Windows graphics acceleration. Also they do not have hires versions.

They are available as VST plugins, which, unless you are referring to the very buggy and in-development Native OS X port of FL Studio, is probably a good explanation for the laggy behavior.

Also Urs, didn't you say that u-he's plugin image resources are scaled down to the chosen size at plugin load time and stored in memory scaled down? That also saves memory usage and CPU time, making most of the discussion here a moot point for anyone not sporting a 4K+ monitor.

[david.beholder]

Flat vector graphics don't sell, with the single (!) exeption of Ableton Live. Another exception may be Fabfilter, but they go through lengths to make their stuff look more interesting than fully flat stuff. Both companies have nailed 2D vector graphics by creating their individual style.

Valhalla DSP UIs are also flat like steppe.

Other synths like Dune2, Serum, Oddity2, don't have issues in terms of graphical performance.

Mentioning Oddity2 as good example in UI thread?????

[exmatproton]

Flat vector graphics don't sell, with the single (!) exeption of Ableton Live. Another exception may be Fabfilter, but they go through lengths to make their stuff look more interesting than fully flat stuff. Both companies have nailed 2D vector graphics by creating their individual style.

Valhalla DSP UIs are also flat like steppe.

Other synths like Dune2, Serum, Oddity2, don't have issues in terms of graphical performance.

Mentioning Oddity2 as good example in UI thread?????

What? Runs smooth as butter

Btw, the new, scalable UI of Spire (100, 150 and 200 %) is also very smooth (dragging, opening...) in FL Studio.

[david.beholder]

What? Runs smooth as butter

1. Eye bleeding on any resolution
2. Not resizable gui - double eye bleeding on my 30"