[SOLVED] End of sample gets clipped

[whyterabbyt]

So @lmv… seriously… stop conflating things! .

Hes not going to. He's been told time and time again that a timeline has one set of behaviours and a sampler has a different set. He just ignores it.
He doesnt understand that they are two different things, doesnt want to understand that they are two different things, will not accept that they are two different things.
He wants the timeline, under a specific set of conditions, to behave like a sampler. He doesnt care how a timeline is supposed to behave; he want it to behave differently. He is not even slightly prepared to accept that he should be using a sampler which behaves that way instead.
This, of course, is everyone else's fault.

Ive said before; he's using Mulab as an example of software which does this. It doesnt. Mulab's timeline behaves exactly like Tracktion's timeline. I doubt there is any software where the timeline behaves the way he says it does, because what he's actually done it with has not been a timeline.

[terminus_one]

So @lmv… seriously… stop conflating things! The fact that the Tracktion sampler itself may not have the feature to support this doesn't mean Tracktion as an organisation (and it's representatives) are going against your deepest and most serious wishes! In fact, pretty much everyone on this thread has been sympathetic to your need to achieve this, and there are clear ways to achieve this in Tracktion, and all the other DAWs that work like Tracktion when it comes to the timeline.

What "clear ways"? The thread is spanning across three pages now and no solution at all has been proposed apart from this one:

There might be a better way, but if there isn't, you could use two tracks and have sample-gap-sample-gap on one and gap-sample-gap-sample on the other.

...which is terrible. I don't want to sound ungrateful in a forum, but it really is terrible.

Firstly, that's not the only solution being proposed in this thread, so you can't just quote one thing to justify your entire argument and frustration. If you'd like, you can re-read the other posts of people really trying hard to help you here and take a look? It could be that your frustration over one aspect (how timelines work in Tracktion and other major DAWs) is clouding your thought processes here? (Hence why I suggested that you're conflating things in this discussion).

So, ok, I'll bite and take a stab at trying to provide you with a solution (I'm going to basically paraphrase what people have already said here):

Let's take a slightly exaggerated example that may not be the exact thing you want, but is along the same lines… let's assume you have 3 one shot samples that take an entire beat to play (= 1, 2 & 3), and then a 4th sample that takes 2 whole beats to play (e.g. it has a reverb tail). You then need to add these to a sampler and ensure that different midi notes can be used to trigger each sample, in "one shot mode", with an appropriate release time set.

So if you arrange this in an exactly 1 bar midi item, and then loop it over 2 bars, you get:

Code: Select all

The midi item and it's notes (over exactly 1 bar; 16th note segments [I believe this is described as "1/4 beats" in Tracktion]) =

[ 1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - ]

When looped to 2 bars (i.e. take the 1 bar clip and hit 'L' on top header of the clip to loop it), the midi clip should look like this in the timeline:

[ 1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - ][ 1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - ]

… and it needs to sound like this when played:

Bar 1:  1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Bar 2:  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

… is this fair so far? I'm assuming this is what you want?

In which case: use a sampler or drum machine that allows you to trigger samples in "one shot mode" via specific midi notes and that ignores note off midi events when in this mode. Many samplers exists that do this (including the Bitwig one, as you mentioned). See also New Sonic Arts Nuance. Again, this is nothing to do with Tracktion (or it's devs) at this point.

Hope that helps.

[lmv]

Firstly, that's not the only solution being proposed in this thread, so you can't just quote one thing to justify your entire argument and frustration. If you'd like, you can re-read the other posts of people really trying hard to help you here and take a look?

OK, I concede to that partially.

My initial mistake was I tried to post samples straight into the timeline. I was told to use the sampler. I was duly corrected. Fine.

But then it became clear that Tracktion's own little sampler wouldn't cut it. It can't do what I want. I have to use an external sampler if I want to do what I want to do. That became my next contention, because the proposed solution wasn't really working. A couple of people agreed with me while all others disagreed, arguing that it's ok to cancel all sound at the end of the loop no matter what, smooth effect be damned. So I bit the bullet and went after an external sampler. Oh, I tried many. Each one has its own shortcomings. I found a good sampler and moved on with it.

Meanwhile, the thread got cold and it was left implying that Tracktion by itself cannot do what I wanted to do. From the looks of it, it really can't. But I was ok with it because the external sampler was doing what I wanted.

Then, out of the blue, I ran into a solution that lets me use the internal sampler! It's a hack, because it kills the note-off command that Tracktion is purposefully sending. But it is a solution, it does make the internal sampler become suitable, so I thought I'd come here and share it, especially for future googlenauts who might have the same issue. I marked the thread as SOLVED. The case was closed.

But no... dRowAudio felt the urge to come here just to tell everyone that the software is not in the wrong! No, sir. Of course, it can't accomplish the task without an external sampler, you need additional software for that, but it is not in the wrong!

Sorry, I think it is, and I felt the urge to make that clear. Again! Has anyone come up with a solution that relies solely on Tracktion's own sampler? Nope.

Even you have just told me to "use a sampler or drum machine," clearly implying "not Tracktion's sampler." Which is why I shared the MIDI hack. It was a way of saying, "Look, it looks like Tracktion definitely cannot accomplish this thing here, but it can if we apply this handy piece of gaffer tape over here."

It works. But come on, it's gaffer tape.

Regarding your proposed solution,
[ 1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - ][ 1 - - - 2 - - - 3 - - - 4 - - - ]
I believe the first "4" to the second "1" transition will sound right, but when it comes to the end of the loop, going from the second "4" to the first "1" will sound "axed" again, because... it's the end of the loop. No?

The other part is confusing
Bar 1: 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Bar 2: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Two bars are overlapping? I don't get it. I posted two audio files. That is unmistakeable to anyone who listens to it.

Plus, step clips don't have the loop 'L' at the top. I believe (not sure) only audio clips do. None of my step clips have the 'L.'

Sorry if I have misunderstood you. I've been up all night and shall go to bed shortly.

[whyterabbyt]

My initial mistake was I tried to post samples straight into the timeline. I was told to use the sampler. I was duly corrected. Fine.

This isnt actually true. A couple of people told you to use a sampler; none of them told you to use 'the' sampler, ie Tracktion's. In fact, pough specifically told you that it would not work. Which isnt surprising because its utterly minimal.

Also, despite the fact that you were 'duly corrected' right at the beginning of the thread, right up to your last post prior to resurrecting this thread with your 'solution' to a 'problem' with the sampler that doesnt actually exist, you were still talking about it as failed behaviour of the timeline.

But no... dRowAudio felt the urge to come here just to tell everyone that the software is not in the wrong! No, sir. Of course, it can't accomplish the task without an external sampler, you need additional software for that, but it is not in the wrong!

Sorry, I think it is, and I felt the urge to make that clear. Again! Has anyone come up with a solution that relies solely on Tracktion's own sampler? Nope.

The definition of 'it is wrong' does not happen to be 'it doesnt do every single thing I want it to.'

[lay it prodctions]

My initial mistake was I tried to post samples straight into the timeline. I was told to use the sampler. I was duly corrected. Fine.

But then it became clear that Tracktion's own little sampler wouldn't cut it. It can't do what I want. I have to use an external sampler if I want to do what I want to do. That became my next contention, because the proposed solution wasn't really working. A couple of people agreed with me while all others disagreed, arguing that it's ok to cancel all sound at the end of the loop no matter what, smooth effect be damned. So I bit the bullet and went after an external sampler. Oh, I tried many. Each one has its own shortcomings. I found a good sampler and moved on with it.

I don't know if this thread was not understood but the argument is completely right who ever think that notes get cut off in every DAW clearly haven't used plenty of Daw's and any hardware sampler perform this way. I used a Mpc for more than 15 years and it always work this way with no note cute off.

lets name a few DAW's I own that don't do this problem don't happend. MPC Software, Fl studio, Reason, Majix Music Maker Ignite and many others. the fact is all the DAW's that do this smoothly are all for making beats first and recording second just keep that in mind.

But let me be clear to say this not something that is wrong with the Traction Daw it is the SAMPLER plugin as LMV was saying because some Vsti's like the UVI Work station, Sample Tank, an some other plugins witch most have there own Audio engine rather and most beat making first Rewired DAW's like the ones listed above, While in Tracktion will not have This problem of the notes stopping at the out maker in most high end Vsti's and most other Vsti's that also work in stand alone and Midi base DAW"s all are set to play the whole note length of each midi note no mater were the maker ends.

First off I Love Tracktion, Its my number one Daw, but this should be a priority being that the Sampler Plugin is the only music making plugin that comes with Tracktion native Plugins.

I been noticed it, but what I do when using the Sampler and plugins that have this problem if I know the sound will need to keep playing pass the maker I stretch the Midi clip into the next bar then record. Once I get my notes down, the end notes I want to have there tails play I drag the notes out to taste. But you still won't here this effect tell you move the makers back.

You can move your makers a half bar to a bar pass where your markers where set to also record the whole notes at the end of your loops. Just Remeber you won't hear it tell you move the makers. I have got a custom to this so now its like second nature to do this but it would be nice if the Tracktion Sampler would do this like my MPC software.

Check out my SS Sampler Mod rack for sound design for free at
http://layitproductions.com/

This video show what "LMV" is saying happening with the Tracktion Sampler
Plugin, and a solution to the problem.

[pough]

I tested MuLab and it only works as described when an audio file is wrapped in the MuSampla. If it's added as normal audio (which MuLab refers to as an audio stream or something) then a looped section will truncate the audio that extends past the loop end. Same as Tracktion.

In FL Studio, audio clips are truncated when a section of the playlist is set to loop. Same as Tracktion. Note that triggered samples in patterns work differently. In both cases, however, these are audio clips loaded into a sampler. FL Studio doesn't really do audio on timelines in a normal way.

Where Tracktion actually differs:

1. Doesn't automatically wrap audio files in samplers (in MuLab you get a choice)
2. Tracktion's sampler has an "ignore release" that is sometimes itself ignored

I personally would prefer* if Tracktion's sampler either worked the same as other samplers or maybe got new "trigger" option that would make it work better as a drum machine. After listening to a bunch of loops I have to say that truncated open hihats are pretty damn annoying. It affects the rhythm.

* Keeping in mind that this is the first time I've ever bothered to use the Tracktion sampler, ever. And I started with version 1.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't know if this thread was not understood

It was. But not by the OP.

but the argument is completely right

Except its not. Because the OP's argument in the thread was that the timeline should behave like a sampler, despite those fundamentally being two different things.

who ever think that notes get cut off in every DAW clearly haven't used plenty of Daw's

Well, I think it, and Ive used pretty much all of them except Logic and Studio One. Ive used ProTools for 17 years, Sonar for 15, Live for 10, Tracktion since V1, own them all and a couple of others as well. The reason I think it is because its true; every DAW loops its timeline and the loop points.

I also know the difference between the DAW and a sampler. 'Some' people seem to be confused about that.

OTOH, who ever thinks that timelines shouldnt loop at the loop point clearly haven't used plenty of Daw's

and any hardware sampler perform this way.

What, all the ones with timelines? You did actually read the thread didnt you? Because if you had, you'd realise that up till he changed his mind yesterday, the complaint was about how the timeline behaved, didnt you?

Its only yesterday, after a fortnight of silence, that it became about the Sampler plugin, because the OP was insistent that it was the timeline that should do this. That's despite the fact that the OP being told from the start that the Sampler wouldnt work either, but that's a different story.

I used a Mpc for more than 15 years and it always work this way with no note cute off.

This thread wasnt about how samplers behave; the OP wasnt interested in that. However, Ive been using DAWs for over 15 years, and Ive used just about every major DAW package etc and I hate to break it to you but they're not the same thing as samplers. How an individual sampler

The OP refused to get the difference between how a sampler behaves when MIDI notes get cut off versus how a DAW cuts off audio when it loops its timeline. Do you get that difference?

lets name a few DAW's I own that don't do this problem don't happend.

On the timeline? Yes they do.

There are plenty of plugin samplers that do what he wants; some are shipped with DAWs but they're not the DAW and they're not the timeline of the DAW. Despite being told this, though, the OP still wanted the timeline to behave like a sampler.

Now he wants Sampler to behave like a grown-up sampler, when its clear its not intended to be one. But the problem is still the same; he doesnt understand what he's talking about, so the software is at fault.

But let me be clear to say this not something that is wrong with the Traction Daw it is the SAMPLER plugin

So basically you just contradicted everything you just said, to repeat what the OP was told on day 1 and has been told repeatedly since. Not the best way to go after saying the thread 'was not understood'.

[lay it prodctions]

It was. But not by the OP..

I love you slim you the greatest dummy ever.

I show in the video this is true.

Most people will say nothing to the truth or say you right.

Not you.

I read the thread but never commented because (the first post you are right can't be done an it was answered well with baking the tail in the loop) but u need to still keep the first loop thats not baked also.

But once the Tracktion sampler was mentioned it was true on to me. Once it is called a sampler the term was ment to speak for its self. A sample placed in a a sampler should play the complete sample no matter what.

like the Mpc Software clearly demonstrated in the last video you must have not seen it or you just playing stupid to get attention its cool homme. Like I said I love you you crazy retarded

[whyterabbyt]

It was. But not by the OP..

I love you slim you the greatest dummy ever.

I show in the video this is true.

Most people will say nothing to the truth or say you right.

Not you.

I read the thread but never commented because (the first post you are right can't be done an it was answered well with baking the tail in the loop) but u need to still keep the first loop thats not baked also.

But wants the Tracktion sampler was mentioned it was true on to me. Once it is called a sampler the term was ment to speak for its self. A sample placed in a a sampler should play the complete sample no matter what.

like the Mpc Software clearly demonstrated in the last video you must have not seen it or you just playing stupid to get attention its cool homme. Like I said I love you you crazy retarded

would you like to try that again, but in english? its kinda hard to tell whether you're exactly as ignorant as the OP, or just nearly as ignorant.

[lay it prodctions]

Son you my son in the words of ( Peanut live 215)