Am I the only person who feels like Reason is completely unusable since VST support?

[Psuper]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=504361&p=7071989&hilit=4k#p7071989

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=507186&p=7111244&hilit=4k#p7111244

I spent hundreds of hours comfortably reasoning along with that setup, still have it, still use it. Though it's Reaper as my main screen more often than not these days.

Apparently I have the eyes of am eagle.

But since I don't have the eyes of an eagle, I know that people:

1. Definitely want Reason to scale larger on their small 4k screens.
2. Definitely have no idea how comfortable Reason looks on a proper 40" or larger 4k screen with 4-4-4 chroma sitting 3' back from the screen
3. Likely have no idea that there is virtually no benefit to running 4k on a small screen, while incurring plenty of deficits.

Reason had FAR more problems with the musical chair 'not-quite-fitting-or-comfortable' windows issues in the early days. This 4k scaling thing is not worth Propellerheads working on, Reason looks amazing if you have the correct equipment in 4k. If you are even remotely serious about making music with Reason and must have it in 4k, do your research and get the correct equipment, preferably the first time.

Reason never looked better, felt more comfortable, or fit more perfect than in a properly researched 4k screen.

[antic604]

...people:
3. Likely have no idea that there is virtually no benefit to running 4k on a small screen, while incurring plenty of deficits.

For one, sometimes it's not a choice as many current laptops only come with high-DPI screens.

Furthermore, you're really off talking about "virtually no benefit" when it's done properly! Below you have two screens from Bitwig: one running at Surface Pro native res with 200% Windows scaling, the other with custom resolution = half of native, so effectively they both are the same "resolutions" but the former is 2x the pixel density, i.e. 4 pixels = 1 pixel on the latter.

For my 42 years old eyes the differentce is super apparent (open them in separate browser tabs & see full-screen):

[rewrite history]

All these complaints about 4k this and that, either change your resolution or get a bigger monitor.
The world hasn't caught up yet for 4k, it's only been out a little while. Plus, at this point 4k is really meant for tv, movies and video games.

You really don't need high resolution graphics to look all pretty to make music with your ears, seriously. If you have trouble trying to get software to perform up to 4k, you're wasting your time, you have to work with what is possible at this time.

WTF are you on about? Bitwig and Live both work FLAWLESSLY on high-DPI and 4K screens, S1 isn't far off. It's possible already.

This thread is about Reason.

[Psuper]

@antic604 Of course. You're talking about custom resolutions vs scaling, not even going into specifics like subsampling and its immense effect, etc. I'm talking 4k basics, what is the benefit of 4k on a smaller screen? I would never buy a 17" screen and have it 4k. Sounds cool, adds damn near nothing but trouble.

My point is there's people out there who go "wow 4k 17" Laptop screen" and the pixels are unusable and unreadable native. Can't even read text its so small there's absolutely no point to it -- just uses greater processing power for nothing. If you open a 4k photo on a 17" 1440 monitor and look at it on a technically-comparable 17" 4k screen, most will not see any difference at all, in fact its almost impossible to notice a difference. However if I did have a 4k laptop like many of you, I'd HDMI it to a large 4k monitor and never look back.

I'm far more 'hobby' than professional, and use DAWs to make music only. When I was younger and couldn't afford multiple PC's for specific tasks, I did my research to make certain the PC or Laptop I was buying for games, emails and everything else, would be ready for any DAW tasks. Reason 3 started out a laptop I've had for about 15 years -- a hpzv5000 17" 1024x768 laptop, pcmcia emu 1616m, and still used it up to a couple years ago for when I needed to record remotely or quietly. I'd pull that out before I ever would buy a 4k laptop. But I don't need to anymore because of the research I put in a couple years ago for my new DAW, and its working out amazingly as usual, and in full 4k, where Reason shines.

I get that people have things they'd like Reason to work on, and know the industry likes to push tech onto people, but we're the ones in control. Its up to us to get the stuff we need if we really care about it.

[fgimian]

Just want to clarify that from my end, I'm not even talking about 4k. I find Reason unreadable at 1080p on a 27 inch monitor, particularly the text on the mixer. I'm sure many others feel the same way who don't have perfect sight.

Really hope something is done about this and Propellerheads start also taking accessibility and readability more seriously.

[antic604]

My point is there's people out there who go "wow 4k 17" Laptop screen" and the pixels are unusable and unreadable native. Can't even read text its so small there's absolutely no point to it

But the opposite was exactly what I tried to show you! There IS a difference and it's quite substantial. Both screens show elements - tracks, clips, icons, text, devices, etc. - of the same exact size, but one is much sharper and definitely less tiring on the eyes.

I wholeheartedly dissagree with your assertion that a 4K screen on a laptop is waste.

[antic604]

This thread is about Reason.

I know.

I'm referring to your "you have to work with what is possible at this time" that suggests we shouldn't use 4K screens because Reason doesn't support them. But if one is also using other DAWs - or actually any other modern(ised) program - then this futuristic 4K support is already a fact, so it's Reason that is the odd one out and behind times...

I really hope v11 fixes that. I never really had problems with VST performance (as I said earlier).

[Psuper]

My point is there's people out there who go "wow 4k 17" Laptop screen" and the pixels are unusable and unreadable native. Can't even read text its so small there's absolutely no point to it

But the opposite was exactly what I tried to show you! There IS a difference and it's quite substantial. Both screens show elements - tracks, clips, icons, text, devices, etc. - of the same exact size, but one is much sharper and definitely less tiring on the eyes.

I wholeheartedly dissagree with your assertion that a 4K screen on a laptop is waste.

Yes, a 200% scale on a 4k monitor is sharper than a custom resolution the monitor is not designed for. AND, a native resolution of 1080p or 1440p would look sharper than your 200% scale.

Native resolution always wins, followed by scaled, followed by custom. Which is why 4k is a waste on a laptop screen for apps/daws/etc when its 17" or less -- you always have to scale unless you're watching a movie or something - better to choose 1440p or 1080p native.

[Reefius]

Kinda funny to see people boasting about their 4K screen and then scale to 200% to be able to read something. This basically drops the resolution back to 1080p

[antic604]

Kinda funny to see people boasting about their 4K screen and then scale to 200% to be able to read something. This basically drops the resolution back to 1080p

You've no clue, do you? The size of things is like on a 1080p screen, but there's 4x more detail. Just check the screenshots above...

[pekbro]

-nvm (not really interested in debating monitior scaling)

[Psuper]

Native resolution always wins, followed by scaled, followed by custom. This is an undisputed fact. See my above post for details.

[pekbro]

^ heh, I was supporting your argument actually...

[Reefius]

As some other people explained, if your screen is not set to its native resolution, it will always look blurry. That's just how LCD screens work.

All scaling does is make everything bigger without the disadvantages of switching to a lower resolution, that's why it looks a lot sharper. But basically you're working in 1080p on a 4k screen.

To be able to use 4k to its full potential, you would need like a 50" screen to be able to read anything properly. 4k is great for a TV, but not so much for a computer screen. A 32" screen with 1440p resolution is way more practical in my opinion.
Anything bigger than 1080p is pointless on a laptop screen, unless you like looking at your screen through a magnifying glass.

[telecode]

Can I confirm, what is the main issues here, that the Reason product has a old school GUI and does not work well with a large screen 4K TV or computer monitor? Do if you don't use a large screen 4k you should be fine?