Eventide H3000 Factory @ $79 - worth it?

[martinjuenke]

No. The vst sounds nothing like the hardware.

That's because the original developers of many famous algorithms of the H3000 and the coder (Ken Bogdanowicz and Bob Belcher) took them with and founded Soundtoys.

...and Dave Derr (now Empirical Labs) designed the AD-converters.

AFAIK Eventide doesn't have the copyright to use many of the original algorithms. That is why the VST-version sounds significantely different.

Bottom line: If you want the sound of the old Eventide, buy Soundtoys.
OTOH though: Soundtoys didn't seem to do anything new for years and before that, they were more into analog emulations than creating exciting new digital effects.

These are obviously alternative facts.

[Modular Manfred]

I would like to address some of the misconceptions here.

- The H3000 Factory plugin by Eventide sounds nothing like the original Eventide H3000 hardware.
- The Soundtoys plugins sound absolutely nothing like the original Eventide H3000 hardware - regardless who developed them.
- There is currently no vst that sounds remotely close to the original Eventide H3000 hardware and that is merely the sound quality properties I'm referring to, not the accuracy of the algorithms.

As a pro tip, explore NI Molekular which again sounds nothing like the original Eventide H3000 processor, but as its own thing it is unconditionally amazing.

[CrystalWizard]

Hiya MM. Welcome to KVR, it's quite refreshing to read your post esp as it's was your third only and it seems quite accurate to my well addled mind. I applied for a job at eventide in '82 or '83 (i aslo applied at EH but had just shut down, they were awesome, too and just said "we're in a mess"
Unfortunately i was a mildly accomplished linear engineer but was fairly out of the digital loop (i hadn't even learned assembler code for any mcu). Guy at eventide who interviewed me in a t shirt and jeans was such a friendly cool person. After i flunked the interview he said "come on back and apply again when you get more digitally aquainted." Those were some fun days. sorry for the rant. But to stay on t, i think it's not just the algos but also the hardware.

[jens]

i think it's not just the algos but also the hardware.

Yes, exactly that and which is why the current H3000 Factory (and Band Delays) won't cut it...

Here's an interesting article btw.:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/a-signature-piece/

[astralprojection]

No. The vst sounds nothing like the hardware.

That's because the original developers of many famous algorithms of the H3000 and the coder (Ken Bogdanowicz and Bob Belcher) took them with and founded Soundtoys.

...and Dave Derr (now Empirical Labs) designed the AD-converters.

AFAIK Eventide doesn't have the copyright to use many of the original algorithms. That is why the VST-version sounds significantely different.

Bottom line: If you want the sound of the old Eventide, buy Soundtoys.
OTOH though: Soundtoys didn't seem to do anything new for years and before that, they were more into analog emulations than creating exciting new digital effects.

Even the "same" algorithms sound very different. Its the classic case of really thin vs full and rich. And I hate to be that guy to do the whole sw vs hw thing; but in that case, the hw very much sound much much better. The sw sounded like any old stock plugin to me. Theres a good video on youtube that A/B the same algos from the sw vs the hw, and it comes thru clearly the vast difference in richness and special sauce. Ofc, its a youtube video, who knows if he really managed to even them out (im talking about the DAC and analog output chain of the HW unit - vs just pure digital on the sw, so there may or may not be a difference just there)

[jens]

How would you possibly know whether the algorithms themselves sound any different?

[jamcat]

I think maybe what he’s saying is even if the processing algorithms in the hardware and software are the same, they sound different due to inherent qualities of the hardware itself, which is essentially what you also said.

[jens]

Ah, I guess I misunderstood him then (due to him putting >>same<< in quotation marks)...

[jamcat]

Probably because the implementation of an algorithm will be different on different architectures. So even though they are equivalent, they're not truly identical.

[astralprojection]

How would you possibly know whether the algorithms themselves sound any different?

By a/b listening

[jens]

No, that is not possible as far as I know. The H3000 has neither digital ins nor digital outs and the plugin - as has been mentioned numerous times throughout this thread - does not emulate the analog section(s) of the H3000, so - unless you'd some how manage to add digital ins and outs to the hardware - there is absolutely no possibility to compare apples with apples. You see?

[jens]

Probably because the implementation of an algorithm will be different on different architectures. So even though they are equivalent, they're not truly identical.

Do you refer to possible truncation errors? These aside the same calculations will obviously yield the same results regardless of what CPU is doing them.

[jamcat]

Theres a good video on youtube that A/B the same algos from the sw vs the hw

I’d like to see that video.

[jamcat]

Probably because the implementation of an algorithm will be different on different architectures. So even though they are equivalent, they're not truly identical.

Do you refer to possible truncation errors? These aside the same calculations will obviously yield the same results regardless of what CPU is doing them.

I refer to there not necessarily being identical routines or ASM, only equivalent. And then there’s a difference in float and integer maths which will never yield identical results (float is an approximation and absolute 0 doesn’t exist). Plus differences in rounding error handling accuracy, depending on bit resolution. So even if the destinations are identical, how you get there might not be. And the destinations themselves might not even be identical anyways.

However, despite all that, you can still always get close enough for rock’n’roll.

[astralprojection]

Theres a good video on youtube that A/B the same algos from the sw vs the hw

I’d like to see that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJo5g_T ... EspenKraft
i may or may not like the person who made the video but at least you can hear the differences.
(and he cant sing )