Apple to recent purchasers of Logic 6: f**k off

[jones-y]

just found this
Please be warned, we have been advised that many third party plug-ins are incompatible with the new version of Logic Pro 7, including the NI plug-ins.

This new version of Logic has a different AU validation system in it. Many third party plugins will fail to load, because they will not pass the validation process. NI have a solution for their plugins and will step by step update them. In the meantime, users of EW/NI plug-ins are advised to not upgrade to Logic Pr

According to Michael Haydn, unvalidated third party plugins will still load, but you'll receive a warning dialogue on startup of Logic.

[jones-y]

I'm not gonna immerse myself into all the mudslinging. but here's a couple of my opinions:

Yes Apple has big corporation tendencies. F U pay me...

Yes Microsoft has those same tendencies, but the thing that bothers me is that their primary product is flawed in one major way.

No Macs aren't the greatest thing since fried chicken. Neither is OS X. But I think they're very good products. And I like these products, so I choose to use these products. I also like Win XP, and I also use it. Nobody has me under a spell.

If you check out the apulSoft WormHole thread, you'll notice that my next purchase will be a Win XP box.

There, I'm done.

[jones-y]

Check out the L-Rock machines if you want really highend equipment, check out Linux or XP Pro for really stable operating systems and check out Nuendo if you want a really highend production system.

Damn I said I wouldn't get involved....

You think XP and Linux are better than OS X. Fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

I don't. Does that make me Apple's official nutsack carrier? If so, do you like the taste of penguin nuts?

[jones-y]

Oh and another thing. I broke a capacitor off of my motherboard when I was swapping out processors a year ago. and my upgraded G4 is still running at full steam. Didn't skip a beat.

I'm probably just lucky, that cap didn't do anything necessary for the operation of the machine. But then again, maybe its a testament to build quality?

[egbert]

Oh and another thing. I broke a capacitor off of my motherboard when I was swapping out processors a year ago. and my upgraded G4 is still running at full steam. Didn't skip a beat.

I'm probably just lucky, that cap didn't do anything necessary for the operation of the machine. But then again, maybe its a testament to build quality?

Could be it is one of several in a row which are in parallel.

There was an epidemic of failing caps on PC and modem mobo's a while back due to a Taiwanese firm which tried to clone/steal the recipe for some Japanese caps - they got part of the production method wrong and the cheaper copycat caps had a gas buildup inside over time and eventually many of them failed.

This took down my Abit BE6 II board - it showed up first as corruption of files passed to another machine via Ethernet and eventually necessitated multiple attempts at booting before I identified the problem and binned the board.

Eg

[jones-y]

Oh and another thing. I broke a capacitor off of my motherboard when I was swapping out processors a year ago. and my upgraded G4 is still running at full steam. Didn't skip a beat.

I'm probably just lucky, that cap didn't do anything necessary for the operation of the machine. But then again, maybe its a testament to build quality?

Could be it is one of several in a row which are in parallel.

Oh ok, that makes sense, I guess I'm a lucky bastard then!

[shamann]

So basically Apple, as a large corporation, has carte blanche to do whatever it wants to it's customers?? Funny...I've never seen such an anti-Bush forum turn Republican so quickly.

Has nothing to do with being Republican or not, just that what you as an individual user of Logic expect from Apple isn't what's in Apple's best interests.

It's not a value judgment at all, as I've already said it does suck for individual users, but just an assessment of economic scale, where the individual doesn't mean anything. I don't have to like it to be able to know it exists.

It's irrelevent to carp that you're not getting a fair deal, when for Apple's interests the fair deal was the delivery of the software you originally purchased.

We've maybe come to expect better treatment from them because of the behaviour of smaller companies, but the smaller companies generally have to offer such deals to stay alive. It really doesn't fall in line that anyone should get any kind of better deal on what is considered a new product by a manufacturer, but specials arise against forces that hurt revenues. From Apple's perspective, it only lowers the value of their product by offering special deals, because the hardware market already sustains them.

The long and short is not Apple is bad or whatever, just stop whining, since you don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and you should have known it from the outset. Take whatever satisfaction you can from your previous transactions, but don't expect that you are entitled to the guarantee of further satisfaction. You want that, you'll have to renew your relationship.

Unfortunately, if that was true anyone could sell their licenses freely. Instead, it seems to be a one side agreement, where the customer has all the obligations, and the provider none.

The Logic/Apple guys don't have to work to keep their customers fidelity? They really do believe so? That's sheer arrogance and comercial suicide; ask any marketing student. So, return the Logic box? Only that? Return the Mac together, I say.

Ask any economics student, and they'll tell you that position is a load of arse. Because in this case it is rare that anyone will return the Mac altogether. So there is no commercial suicide from Apple's perspective. Logic is a leader product, it gets you to buy hardware from Apple. This new version will likely lead to more hardware sales. Who cares about making existing feel good about themselves when we've already lived up to are end of the transaction.

Do you really think that most small companies would feel obligated to offer specials if it didn't make financial sense for them? Go ask any other kind of manufacturer/service provider that you've dealt with for a deal on new products and see how far you get. It might work sometime, but only if its in the company's best interests. And rarely because you demand it.

Why should software be different? As for selling licenses freely, that doesn't jive with the product you bought. A license doesn't signify a continued relationship, just an agreement on behaviour from the outset. I suppose I've ranted enough here, just trying to shed some light why this isn't about "me me me".

[egbert]

The long and short is not Apple is bad or whatever, just stop whining, since you don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and you should have known it from the outset.

Shamann,

I gotsta wundrin' - are you this passive and accepting of ill treatment in your personal life?

Because obviously in the scheme of things you don't matter to exploitative people. If a psychopath decided to cannibalise you I trust you wouldn't take its personally. It is just that you don't matter in the scheme of things. Just don't whine about it as you get lowered into the pot OK?

Perhaps you could explain to our American friends about how kicking out the Brits in the 18th Century was really just a failure to accept that they didn't matter and that their licence agreement spelled out in the relevant acts of the British Parliament didn't give them any rights.

"Taxation without representation is tyranny" - that was really just whining and a general failure to realise and deal with the fact that people in the colonies don't matter in the scheme of things. Geez - hadn't they read the Acts? C'mon - get with the program Mr Jefferson.

Go and see "The Corporation" and get an education about why this sort of solipsistic corporate behaviour is not good for you or the world.

Eg

[shamann]

Go and see "The Corporation" and get an education about why this sort of solipsistic corporate behaviour is not good for you or the world.

Hmm, yes, you've really sorted me straight. Thank you.

One note though, I've said nothing about what's good here, just what is. Much as I'd love to see the world change, this isn't the battle that's going to right all wrongs. At no point has Apple dropped its end of the bargain, and no amount of self-blinded whinging is going to change that.

Now had the crux of the upgrade been bug fixes a previously promised features, as some companies have done in recent years, I'd agree wholeheartedly, because then Apple would not have met their obligations. But this so-called f**k Off that Apple has said just looks like a plea for special treatment, as their actions do not intefere with the product you've already paid for.

[AD80]

Damn... If only Propellarheads had produced Reason 3.0, I could have:

1. Kept my G4
2. Not bought Live
3. Not bought Logic, Platinum, Pro, 7...
4. Not bought all the VSTs/AUs, etc. last 6 months

But... instead, here I am going further down the rabbit hole... Ughhh!

Exactly!

But when I complain about them taking too long in the prop's forum, everybody starts sucking their balls and calling me a crack head. What a joke.

[munchkin]

Go and see "The Corporation" and get an education about why this sort of solipsistic corporate behaviour is not good for you or the world.

Hmm, yes, you've really sorted me straight. Thank you.

One note though, I've said nothing about what's good here, just what is. Much as I'd love to see the world change, this isn't the battle that's going to right all wrongs. At no point has Apple dropped its end of the bargain, and no amount of self-blinded whinging is going to change that.

Now had the crux of the upgrade been bug fixes a previously promised features, as some companies have done in recent years, I'd agree wholeheartedly, because then Apple would not have met their obligations. But this so-called f**k Off that Apple has said just looks like a plea for special treatment, as their actions do not intefere with the product you've already paid for.

I take it that you have a full copy of Apples customer care policy with that licensing agreement of theirs? No, I didn't think so. Funny how Apple don't make their customer care policy very specific like their licensing agreements. It's all Apple! Apple! Apple! Rather than Customer! Customer! Customer!

By your logic (no pun intended) Apple could release any old dross and after you've paid for it you're stuffed. I think I'll try that. Release a host that promises the world and then refuse to fix the bugs quoting the licensing agreement when the world comes crashing down for all my customers. Anyone who bought my host 30 seconds before I release an upgrade can suck my dick before they get the upgrade for free.

Seeing as we're dancing on analogy street. I could sell tinned tomatoes that are rotten and when people complain I could use this logic and tell them it's too late - according to the purchase agreement they've got their tomatoes. Nice one!

[BitFlipper]

Seeing as we're dancing on analogy street. I could sell tinned tomatoes that are rotten and when people complain I could use this logic and tell them it's too late - according to the purchase agreement they've got their tomatoes. Nice one!

LOL, that reminds me of the story about the one guy that owes the other guy a cow. So he ships him the cow, except when the other guy gets it, the cow is dead. So he calls the 1st guy to complain, and so the 1st guy says, no, the cow was alive when he sent it. The second guy then decides to have a $5 lottery with the cow as prize. So all these people enter his lottery and when he picks the winner, he sends him the dead cow. Except the guy is upset so he complains. So he gives the winner back his $5, and everyone is happy.

Or something...

BitFlipper

[egbert]

Go and see "The Corporation" and get an education about why this sort of solipsistic corporate behaviour is not good for you or the world.

Hmm, yes, you've really sorted me straight. Thank you.

Have you seen it? It is made by Canadians - go boost your economy to the tune of $10:-)

The film makes the salient points that anyone who understands the history of the legislation into being of limited liability companies and corporations should already grasp.

Just because corporations and their idealogues decide that their only responsibility is to enrich their shareholders doesn't mean that we have to accept their attitudes and behaviour.

The corporation has the privileges of a citizen and a limited liability corp has privileges beyond that. Perhaps Dubya should draft corporations into serving the US in Iraq - grunt's salaries all round. And get a haircut. Imagine that. Then they could talk about their loyal service to the country.

It should be made clear to corporations which legally exist only because of acts of parliaments and congress that they have responsibilities to behave ethically.

This case of a Logic upgrade is obviously not an end of the world scenario - it is a software upgrade - but your defence of the corporate behaviour seems to stem from you swallowing so much of their propoganda that you are broadcasting it yourself. Do you confuse Apple's interests with your own? Are you really Steve?

Eg

[juanito]

When anyone asks me what I think about Apple and their Macs I usually respond with, "f**k-a-Mac"!

I don't care how fancy apple's shit is. If their PC's n' Apps lock me in to only using "their PC's n' Apps" then I say lose their Yuppy, Guppy platform.



Besides, Steve Jobs is a Bush Supporter.

- juanito

[Aeros]

Hey, I'm a college student using Logic Pro 6.4.2, I bought it at the beginning of the summer. I love it, but now I notice that 7 is out, and am pissed like everybody else, but I think for a different reason: Logic Pro 7 is 1000$, but students get it for $500. Now, to upgrade for normal people is $299, but students get the upgrade for... $299... What the hell? I have called and emailed and not gotten a response. I once emailed Apple, (24 hour response right? And NEVER got a response about upgrading for students to production suite from final cut pro). This sucks. *sigh* looks like another stupid job this christmas break to buy the damn upgrades...