Rendering in T is not as perfect as I thought

[braj]

I'm just happy that it really doesn't affect me, since my music is crap anyway. This is the least of my problems I personally never would have noticed if it weren't pointed out.

[rpc9943]

this is going to delay the release of t2 i bet

RonC

[webmob]

this is going to delay the release of t2 i bet

I hope !

webmob

[nuisance sonore]

I just ran my own test rendering the same project at 32, 24 and 16 bits, with or without dithering, and I see none of the noise that is very obvious in the sample AndrewSimon provided. Is it possible that this is a problem relating only to the reverb plugin that was used? AndrewSimon, did you try to render the same project dry, without reverb of any kind? I read this thread but I don't remember.

[Sidhu]

I just gave my recent mixes that i have rendered a listen... It's there!

I think i might have noticed it before, cause it's quite audible... but somehow i havnt really given any of the renders (few so far) i have done with T a careful listen afterwards...

My problem is that most of my sessions are too heavy to render real time (using Tape it). And i dont have another audio editor.

Sidhu

[mandolarian]

.. yeah i know what you're all thinking: "What does a reputation for smugness and arrogance have to do with this problem?"

Simple. While smugness and arrogance can in theory be truncated, in practice they are never dithered.

[AD80]

I just ran my own test rendering the same project at 32, 24 and 16 bits, with or without dithering, and I see none of the noise that is very obvious in the sample AndrewSimon provided. Is it possible that this is a problem relating only to the reverb plugin that was used? AndrewSimon, did you try to render the same project dry, without reverb of any kind? I read this thread but I don't remember.

The only time I got any kind of weird noise and cut off from a plug-in in Tracktion, was when the "Normalize" function was enabled. For example with Pro-53 which has a built in delay, if you render the track and the original volume is not close to -0, it'll normalize it and expand the delay tale to a point where it sounded distorted.

[nuisance sonore]

I just ran my own test rendering the same project at 32, 24 and 16 bits, with or without dithering, and I see none of the noise that is very obvious in the sample AndrewSimon provided. Is it possible that this is a problem relating only to the reverb plugin that was used? AndrewSimon, did you try to render the same project dry, without reverb of any kind? I read this thread but I don't remember.

The only time I got any kind of weird noise and cut off from a plug-in in Tracktion, was when the "Normalize" function was enabled. For example with Pro-53 which has a built in delay, if you render the track and the original volume is not close to -0, it'll normalize it and expand the delay tale to a point where it sounded distorted.

In the test I did, I did not use the normalize or remove silence options. Mmmm, so many variables, so little time...
In any case, I feel kind of better now, this thread was starting to put the fear of God into me.

[AD80]

Of course we can expect some distortion on effects if the audio is normalized to a level much higher than the original.

[gavriloP]

I made more tests and there is really something wrong in even 32bit export and without dither(which would be useless anyway). I have to say that with 32bit export those differences are certainly inaudible but if you boost that signal heavily it will become audible. I have captured images from soundforge that show differences in Tracktion export and TapeIt export. Meters showed that all the time but I had to boost both samples with 40db gain(pretty huge, I know) so they came visible. Of course at this point the volume is so loud I won't punish my headphones or speakers with it. Tracktion cuts that sound short. I also made same test with Chainer demo (32bit record)and that result looked just like TapeIt sample.

So this is definitely a bug but it won't bother me as long as I export with 32bit, it is so silent. And if it's intentional then only reson for this behaviour that I could think is that total silence would make little smaller compressed archives.

Of course in some cases the suspect could be the plugin itself but then that behaviour should be equally bad in any cases.

If anyone wishes to host that captured image, I can send it to them.

And, yes I know that your ears should be your meters. But if any audiophiles hear about it you know what will follow

[AD80]

Good work gavriloP!

[stash98]

when you guys export at 32 bit, your songs are still being tracked at 24bits right? So you reccomend exporting at 32 and then maybe importing into something like sonar or soundforge and dithering down to 16 that way?

[gavriloP]

when you guys export at 32 bit, your songs are still being tracked at 24bits right? So you reccomend exporting at 32 and then maybe importing into something like sonar or soundforge and dithering down to 16 that way?

Yes.


Mikko

[gavriloP]

This captured image from Soundforge shows the difference in two 32bit files, one with export and other with TapeIt. Keep in mind that these are boosted with 40db and the vertical zoom is also very big, but anyway it shows the difference. Of course it isn't audible to me (that difference is originally from something like over -100db), but it is there and without a reason I think.

[semiquaver]

you can see that its not just being clipped off but breaks up before the end....