free lunch

[whyterabbyt]

Tidy up your quotes, Greg!

[Lunch Money]

Yes, but didn't Starbucks knowingly employ the dodgy and jealous Barista?

That doesn't make them responsible for his actions.

Geez..my brain hurts from all this small text. Expectations and gripes notwithstanding, I think the original and pretty fair request for ANY (not just NFR) new customers to have access to a purchasable download at a price which is fair....

The problem is that people are making it Mackie/RMS- specific, when in fact it's simply that they're people who would prefer to have ALL (or at least the majority) of their software in downloadable versions. It's reasonable to wish for a marketplace in which download is an option, period, but it's not like they're the only company who isn't offering downloadable versions.

Have pleasant dreams.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

Tidy up your quotes, Greg!

The problem with responding to specific posts is that I want to get it out there before someone comes along and says the same thing. In the second one (to Graeme) I had just forgotten that he had paragraphs I still wanted to respond to when I hit "submit".

Greg

[cbit]

So when other users (like me) respond, we can only go by what we believe makes sense. Hence, when we can't actually speak for Mackie/RMS, we have to say things like, "It doesn't make sense to expect more than what you're getting." And that's when the debates start.

For me, saying "It doesn't make sense to expect more than what you're getting." implies that you think the poster was already expecting something, which wasn't the case.. which for me is what would start the debate.

[Lunch Money]

So it's all semantics, then? No surprise.

[lharless]

it's only software. don't shit yourself over it.

[lharless]

i apologize if i made any of you mad.

im gonna try to think of something nice to say...


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im done...




i love you all.

[GaryG]

it's only software. don't shit yourself over it.

as a coder myself, I want a t-shirt with that on.

.g

[djsubject]

i wouldent blaim Mackie if thay revoked all nfr licences

[silicon/silicium]

well someone said plugin are free bonuses, well, anyone can tell me why the price increased that much just for colors and control surfaces?? seing the demo of T2, it should be a 1.8, almost free (that what they do with 20 bux offer) for user. but it should not almost double the street price to me. T was a cheap alternative, now t2 is a competitor. I personnaly think T2 lose two major things: attractive price, and "house crafted" aspect. now, at least for me, it's just one sequencer among other ones.

[whyterabbyt]

silicon/silicium quoth well someone said plugin are free bonuses, well, anyone can tell me why the price increased that much just for colors and control surfaces??

Because thats not what its for. Its for a retail box, sitting on the shelves, with a cut of the sale price going to the distributor, and another one going to the retailer. Plus you're talking about the RRP, which is usually only advisory for retailers anyways. Mackie will probably make less per copy, in fact, and it wont be long before the 'name' retailers have slashed $35 of the RRP to compete with each other.

seing the demo of T2, it should be a 1.8, almost free (that what they do with 20 bux offer) for user. but it should not almost double the street price to me.

There was no 'street' price. It wasnt available that way.

T was a cheap alternative, now t2 is a competitor. I personnaly think T2 lose two major things: attractive price, and "house crafted" aspect. now, at least for me, it's just one sequencer among other ones.

So it'll have to compete on features rather than just a bargain price. Thats a pretty compelling reason for RMS/Mackie to keep it as good as they can, dont you think?

[headquest]

T was a cheap alternative, now t2 is a competitor. I personnaly think T2 lose two major things: attractive price, and "house crafted" aspect. now, at least for me, it's just one sequencer among other ones.

So it'll have to compete on features rather than just a bargain price. Thats a pretty compelling reason for RMS/Mackie to keep it as good as they can, dont you think?

True. But bear in mind that at its new price the boxed version costs more than (for example) Cubase SE, C Home Studio, the Magix stuff, FL Studio Producer, eXT, Podium, etc. And furthermore, Kristal's Audio engine is reputed to be on the verge of launching v2 as a Tracktionesque full-on MIDI/Audio sequencer costing "next to nothing". So this is becoming a far more competitive end of the market than it was when T1 launched. Mackie will indeed need to keep their eye on the ball...

...and then there is the whole issue of "bundled software". T2 is of course bundled with Spike, but I don't get the impression that Spike has yet emerged as the "starter" interface/recording combination of choice for many. The M-Audio and the Korg stuff now comes with lite versions of Ableton Live and/or Reason. Apple give away Garageband (version 2 definitely competes with T2) Edirol are about to bundle Sonar LE with all their stuff... so it will be interesting to see how this all pans out. Certainly the competition is gonna be hot!

As I've said before, in Europe/UK the educational market is a key area to crack. People are often quite conservative and stick with what they know...

On the other hand, the whole Tracktion legacy was founded on the notion that the established sequencers basically suck, and I think that possibly rather negative viewpoint remains at the heart of the T2 advertising campaign... and continues to strike a chord with disgruntled Steinberg refugees .

[whyterabbyt]

headquest quoth
True. But bear in mind that at its new price the boxed version costs more than (for example) Cubase SE, C Home Studio, the Magix stuff, FL Studio Producer, eXT, Podium, etc.

Yup, they're going to have to stand out to compete...

As I've said before, in Europe/UK the educational market is a key area to crack. People are often quite conservative and stick with what they know...

Yup. If Tracktion had had video support 18 months ago I might have tried to get it in our sound studios, but ProTools is what they had, so its what they stayed with....

[whyterabbyt]

Yikes. As 'bastien' has just pointed out elsewhere, Turnkey have it listed at a UK price of £129.99 - which is a shade over $240....

[dernil]

whatever, still asking for free lunch. just because you have T1(NFR) does not translate to full T1 user. you never paid anything. it translates to "lucky bastard". it means you got to enjoy what the rest of us had to pay for, for free. you've already had your free lunch, why do you expect anything more?

get your wallets out. or get out.

You know, you really should read the complete set of posts more carefully. Nobody is asking for anything for free - everyone is prepared to pay. Most even appreciate there is no reason on Earth why they should get any sort of a 'deal' on a piece of software they got for nothing in the first place.

The main issues are twofold;

1 - Many users already have the plugins (or they have equivalents) so they don't require the 'bells and whistles' version. They would simply like to be able to download/unlock the demo of T2. For this, they are prepared to pay whatever the asling price might be.

2 - Users outside of the USA have absolutely no access to any version of T2, be it in a box or by electronic data transfer. Their complaint is simply "why not?". Again, these prospective Mackie clients are willing to pay the price and they're not looking for any sort of 'free lunch', just the software they were promised by the supplier.

Mackie is a major player in this business, they really could and should have organised a major software release a little better than this. One sure way of turning off prospective clients is to muck them about and rightly, or wrongly, that's how a lot of us feel.

On a personal front, my wallet has been 'out' since the release was (finally) announced. It's not my fault that nobody has wanted to relieve me of my money - I've tried hard enough to give it to them!

Boxed versions have arrived in Europe. NFRs can purchase T2 from select retailers in Europe.

As far as pricing goes, we have no control over exchange rates or international distributor pricing, other than the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). If a dealer wishes to charge MSRP or do a straight conversion from dollars to Euros, that is there perogotive. People get paid in their local currencies, so the cost of T2 as a percentage of income is relative. A Big Mac in London costs me $5.00, but still about 1 hour's worth of my work if I'm being paid in pounds, just like it does in the states. (Let's not start a relative wage/cost of living flame...)

We are trying to come up with a reasonable program for T1 upgrades for Europe and beyond. Worst case is there will be no rebate for T1 upgrades (not our preferred approach). Best case is that it will reflect the US rebate. We did not want to hold up the US launch of T2 for this. Obviously handling rebates in 50 countries is much more difficult than handling rebates in one country.

There will not be a full T2 download version from Mackie, and no T2 stripped download version (save the T1 upgrade). T2 is a retail product. Please support your favorite retailer.

Bottom line: NFRs, please go to your retailer for your copy of T2.

dernil
Mackie Dude