MB, show me complaints. It is more amazing that you see what was not written at all.MB wrote:It is simply amazing there are more and more ignorant people who cannot mix properly, yet they start complaining on imaginative phenomena that allegedly spoil their "perfect" output.
Who said that one cannot do wonderfully sounding records with 16 or 20 bit?MB wrote: For many yers people learned to create wonderfully sounding records using only 16-bit, 20-bit and finally 24-bit technology.
But 24 bit was recognized as something that significantly improve what was already good in 16 or 20 bits, just good but way less than perfect. Any next step will bring obviously less dramatic improvements.
What you said is intentional simplification on something that is under discussion among scientist, developers and manufacturers, much beyond purely mathematical models. Although not widely implemented it IS already standard for all next releases of major hardware and software mixers.MB wrote: It has been scientifically proven many times there is absolutely no difference whether you are using 64-bit or 32-bit math when your final output is 16-bit (or a 24-bit pre-master).
Of course, it could be difference between two various 64 bit alghoritms, so as general rule your statement is not true.
Some people hear different, but I never counted myself to 'golden ears', as on particular projects improvement is obvious.MB wrote: Stop your elitist arguments about your being golden-ear and hearing rounding errors which are as low as -1400dB.
T2 unfortunately has bug in rendering, so benefits of better mix are saved only if output is direct from Tracktion to 2-track software.
What I fully agree is that for majority of users slight sonic improvements are something they actually do not need.
At the end one more quote from 32 vs 64 bit 'white paper':
...32/64-Bit Mixing Technical Note
If your music production mainly concentrates on using softsynths and encoding the final master to MP3 files, then don't bother with 64-bit mixing as you won't be able to hear any improvements in audio quality.
If however you are producing music recorded in pristine studio conditions and aimed for reproduction on high end audio equipment, 64-bit mixing will offer better precision and larger dynamic range.
The 64-bit mixing will only be utilized when the mixer engine is processing and routing audio internally. The VST plugin specification currently only supports 32-bit floating point audio format, so the mixer engine will convert the audio down to 32-bit floats when routing audio through VST plugins.
When describing floating point numbers, the 32 and 64 bits refers to the amount of memory that is required to store the floats. The bits are split into two parts that stores the precision and the exponent for the 'floating point'. 32-bit floats offers 25 bit precision and 64-bit floats offers 54 bit precision.
The advantage of 64-bit mixing is evident when an audio signal is gain scaled or when two or more audio signals are summed in the mixer engine.
Gain scaling occurs when the track gain or pan settings are affecting the audio signal. The scaling involves multiplying the floating point audio signal with a floating point scale value. These multiplications will result in values that uses more precision bits than the original audio signal, causing the least significant bits of the result to be discarded.
To illustrate the effect of summing, let's assume that you have two 25 bit precision audio sources that you want to mix together. These sources could be wave files or the 32-bit floating point output of VST plugins. If you mix these sources together without changing the gain of the tracks, the output will fit within 32-bit floats, provided that the summed output does not clip. If you change the gain of one of the tracks, then the 25 bit precision of that track is displaced up or down in relation to the other track. A gain change of 6 dB will result in approximately one bit displacement. When summing the two tracks the combined precision interval has thus been extended beyond the 25 bits that can be stored in 32-bit floats, so the least significant bits are truncated and you loose some of the precision in the audio sources.
This is where 64-bit mixing will offer an advantage over 32-bit mixing, as it can use 54 bit precision to store the results of gain scaling and summing, and thereby reduce the artifacts of the floating point truncations.
So what's the point of the higher precision if the master output is being bounced to a 24-bit or 16-bit wave file? For every audio track that you add to a mix, you add noise as a result of the truncation of the lower bits of the signal. The accumulation of these rounding errors can result in a slightly degraded output that can be present even when rendering to 16-bit wave files..."
Final word.
Usually it is not necessary to change from 32-bit to 64-bit mixing, but it is worth to have this option in arsenal in case that mixing project contatins many natural sourcing tracks with material rich in transients, upper harmonics and gain changes done in processing project with lot of dynamics and other plug-ins.
On later stage when plug-ins with 64-bit processing become standard, 64-bit buss will offer clearer advantages.
Now, back to making music Tracktioners.
yang
