License model no way !!!

[PHY6]

i understand and like that new model... 13,25/month for a great innovative software,... look back what they created the last years, a really outstanding daw with many blazing features and great support.

guys don't troll around, invest in the future of bitwig! i will do... (and i think it's time to print a new pile of fanboy stickers ;D )

Imagine doing that to all software you own...crazy !!!

[glokraw]

this board is so weird how it sometimes posts twice and apparently can't delete posts...

You get used to finding something intelligent/witty to replace it with,
edit #2 before the peanut gallery knows what hit them. You could always keep some
cat photos handy
Cheers

[popskull]

The only thing subscription is good for is to screw over artists ( I.e. Music streaming ) . Music is now worthless except for the likes of Apple , Spotify et al. Now software companies want to screw them and those that help them record it. Soon there won't be anything left and everyone will be forced to listen to Apples U2.

[beatz01]

The new license model has several serious issues but my main concern is that now you essentially have to pay for bugfixes.Might even be illegal in some countries for a number of reasons but especially because they initially stated

"We release bug fixes and minor updates for free."

The new license model is a clear contradiction/breach of contract.

[Reefius]

It should be at least something like this:

From 2.0 to 2.1, 2.1 to 2.2, ... = update, only if license (subscription) is still active
From 2.0 to 2.0.99, 2.1 to 2.1.99, ... = bugfixes, should always be free

Also, if for example 2.2 is released and a new bug is encountered in the last 2.1.x version, it should still be fixed for free so people will have a decent working product if they decide not to pay for another year.

[Tj Shredder]

Bugfix releases could still be possible across major releases.
But back to the main point. For a company like Bitwig, they have to find a model which suits very different sorts of customers. Professionals, beginners, occasional users and alike. My experience with software and their update policies is mediocre. For example ProTools is a night mare, unless its your main tool and you rely your business on it. (That scenario is never aproblem in terms of cost, in the end your customers pay happily for all upgrades, no matter of the cost) ProTools is made in a way that operating system upgrades likely break the programm. They want to force you to upgrade, even if you don't need any of the new features. I would still be happy with ProTools 3... Others only break after major OS upgrades. Seems fair as you can't really foresee changes in the OS architecture...
The now more and more common subscription modell is realy a "no way ever, even don't think about it" for me. If the software stops working when I stop paying is also a risk no professional should ever take. For those who make their money with it the price would be attractive though. But what about occasional users. They usually even don't have the time to learn all these new bells and whistles of an upgrade, they just want to run it. They would never pay a fortune for a single project they plan to do with it. There must be a less costly way.
The new model does cover these differnt scenarios. It is a creative answer to the new world. I always had the feeling, the money I pay for software is much more money for a service than money for a product. They offer something and its your choice to take the offer. If Bitwig is your main tool the price is more than for keeping your work running, you get new features which need work and resources to come into existence. Within that year of support you could also influence the future features. Most imortant though, your sofrware remains your software it keeps you running even if you stop paying...
The new model seems new, but the first who did that was Ircam with a pretty high fee for access to all Ircam software. This is also valid for one year.

[djanderz]

It should be at least something like this:

From 2.0 to 2.1, 2.1 to 2.2, ... = update, only if license (subscription) is still active
From 2.0 to 2.0.99, 2.1 to 2.1.99, ... = bugfixes, should always be free

Also, if for example 2.2 is released and a new bug is encountered in the last 2.1.x version, it should still be fixed for free so people will have a decent working product if they decide not to pay for another year.

i agree
i think they will have around 4 or 5 updates a year so they easily do bug fixes for each release so know one gets left with buggy releases when their 12 months is up

i do think everyone should wait for a more feature rich update as it seems a little light for a 2.0 for the price
i also think they have held back a little for the first year updates to make it look like a great plan, remember they would have been working up to version 2 nearly 3 years in march

[nocompromise]

It's pretty telling when there are so many people posting ad hominem attacks and yet there's no mod and no Dom telling them to stop. Calling people names for expressing their opinions ought to be unacceptable here and if you're doing it you are part of the problem.

We were lied to by Bitwig, like it or not. If you cannot see the irony in calling people babies on an internet forum then I'm laughing at you. Why falsely lump everyone in this thread with legitimate concerns into a big group that you can tear down with a few words? Why are you so threatened? You are not contributing anything to this conversation by calling people names, and in fact you only add fuel to the flames.

You are correct. There is a shocking lack of respect going on. People need to stop for a while before blindly replying to every little detail, spelling mistak or gramatical error. (yes that is was deliberate.) The people who disagree with the new pricing model are mostly upset with bitwig. we are not upset with anyone who thinks it is fine. that is your opinion and we can respect that. I mentioned this in the locked thread already, but please have the same courtesy with us.

I was taught a long time ago that it is better for a company to sell low to many people. I believe the premise (if that's what it is) still holds true. Obviously this excludes apple, adobe, samsung, et al who make billions out of ripping us off. Just because a company can sell us garbage at a 2000% markup does not make it right. just because payday loans charge 1200% interest does not make it right. or fair.

bitwig are trying to change the established model of music software by providing something new, something innovative. They should also be as forward thinking with their business model.

there is nothing wrong per se with being ongoing beta testers. it is the fact they have changed the rules. it is also that they have little or no respect for us. they could easily communicate more openly with us. they could have asked us what we were willing to do. if they need funds desperately they could have asked us. all the people shouting about how it is the right decision are essentially gambling on them now anyway. i would have been willing to throw some more money their way too in that case.

personally i don't care about the cost at all. i care about honesty and transparency and trust. i no longer support microsoft (amongst many others). i wish i could use all open source software. one day soon this will be mostly possible.

well actually i am mostly doing that now. one of my reasons for buying bitwig was the linux version. my dream was for bitwig to be my only paid software on that platform and only to use that. my dream may still come true but for now i need to move on and use what will get the work done now.

i truly do want to support the company, but they have made a very bad business decision in my view. if they had asked for 60€ and called this upgrade 1.5 that would have been fine too. as it is 2.0 does not live up to their own promise or commitment.

there is also no comparison to be made with ableton version this or that in x years. we are only talking about bitwig past, present and future.

if they had fulfilled their own promises or road map or plan or whatever you want to call it (all just semantics) AND had a realistic price like i just mentioned, we would most likely tell 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 other people to go buy it and support a fantastic company. i may even have bought a few licenses to give to colleagues as xmas presents to get them invested into the bitwig philosphy too. 60€ ? thanks I'll have three right now.

there is still time for them to change their minds. imagine if they announced to namm they would do this they would turn it around in an instance. the industry would forget that bitwig made a slightly wrong business move. the industry and every magazine would be talking about it too.

a company cannot survive by treating prospective customers this way, let alone their own loyal ones.

having had a couple of days to absorb all this, I feel the people being noisiest are the ones who are for the new model but unfortunately they are the ones who are probably doing the worst damage.

in closing, how about this. change the model. call the new version 1.5. bug fix this version. update it until 2.0 is actually ready to release and is actually what you proposed.

this may take another 2 years. who knows? who cares? but at least you are giving us what you said. oh and make the price 80€. charge us now. make some amazing progress. charge us another 80€ in 6 months. then when 2.0 is really ready charge us a final 80€.

we are the people. the creative people. the normal people in the street. so are you bitwig. we are not multinational monstrosities trying to dream up new ways to extract more resources from each other and the planet. with our art, we are the antidote to all that.

everyone should keep that in mind.

[.jon]

Why do you think that because Bitwig is financially challenged and lacks management and marketing competence, they are somehow nicer people than MS and Apple? Just because a company is big and successful doesn't make it "evil". Without the efforts, skills and talents of MS, Adobe and Apple engineers, where would we be now?

[nocompromise]

Why do you think that because Bitwig is financially challenged and lacks management and marketing competence, they are somehow nicer people than MS and Apple? Just because a company is big and successful doesn't make it "evil". Without the efforts, skills and talents of MS, Adobe and Apple engineers, where would we be now?

yes you are right. I have no proof one way or another. i am merely trying to suggest to bitwig that there might be a better way of running a business.

you are also correct that ms and apple are not "evil" because they are big and successful.

as to where we would be now? maybe a fairer and friendlier world where the wealth was more evenly distributed and the world hadn't been raped and pillaged in the name of progress for the sake of greed?

i may live in a different part of the multiverse than you though.......?

[nocompromise]

of course there may have been more relevant things about my post to comment on regarding the thread topic.

edit: i hope that didn't come across as disrespectful to you. no offence meant!

[.jon]

as to where we would be now? maybe a fairer and friendlier world where the wealth was more evenly distributed and the world hadn't been raped and pillaged in the name of progress for the sake of greed?

i may live in a different part of the multiverse than you though.......?

If the state of the world is caused by MS, Apple and Adobe in your multiverse, then yeah, I probably live somewhere closer to realityverse.

I agree with you about this BWS 2 clusterfuck, though, but it looks like they are not going to change course.

[mikey1point0]

Now that I have had a definitive reply I'm happy to pay and buy into this model.

"If you don't renew your license, you get to keep the latest update as well as still having access to every other single version released within those 12 months."

"It is very unlikely that we release a totally unusable version at the end of your license period, and even if we do, we obviously will try to work out a solution. If the update does not introduce new major features, you can just go back a version. If something totally critical and unexpected happens, like the famous white screen problem on windows, for example, we even have the possibility to just add another month to your license, so that you get elevated to the next version that works again - which is great and not really possible with the traditional model."

"We don't intend to leave anyone with unusable software, why should that be in our interest? "

"Cheers, Dom "

[sovietpop]

For me its obvious Bitwig is not in business to rip off is customers.
Lets try this model and hope for the best.

[BlackStarMuzic]

I guess so time has passed, the model is fine its a tad bit high but mehh.. I'm still not happy as i was only 10 days past the cutoff ant still would have paid something but yeah I'll use it tell it stops working then migrate over to Ableton not that i want to haha but they're not a bad company just not good at marketing or letting people know what they're up to so we can make a conscious decision.


Even something as minor as announcement coming soon via social media would've been great but this is 2.0 they have only ever had Version 1 as the last big announcement so I guess I'm splitting hairs here.


Keep up the good work,
Dom@bitwig