Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[PieBerger]

Personally, I dont think Live or Bitwig will ever match the more traditional DAWS at audio and midi editing, but they can and should definitely be 'better' and I think Live just did that- Over to you now Bitwig, lets see what 5.2 brings!

I agree and they don't need to match traditional DAWs, the same way they don't need to become modular sound design and or looping playgrounds . Ableton upped the game MIDI-wise, so hopefully Bitwig will do the same in 5.2+ and ideally Ableton will look into improving audio editing in Live, then we'll all be be happy

[pdxindy]

Now you're both pulling arguments out of thin air...

You're the one doing that. I've never once encountered the scenario you described.

But let's suppose there is some situation where I wanted to change the midi of a project, I would just do it. It's not like it's hard to do as is. It is just some work and I enjoy it.

If Bitwig adds some key and scale functionality to the piano roll, I may find some use for it. Using the Grid I can already set up a project so that all the midi tracks follow one lead/key/scale track.

[Stan Navi]

I also don't understand example with midi only changing structure. From arrangement standpoint it is normal to shift whole song key(audio and midi), but neither Ableton, not Bitwig can do it. When I need it, I just use Cubase. Bitwig covers creative side for me.

[syntonica]

... and ideally Ableton will look into improving audio editing in Live...

I find this really odd as audio, i.e. loops, is Live's raison d'être.

In fact, why every DAW isn't up to the standard, of say, Cool Edit Pro (Syntrillium version) is beyond me. I find individual tools quite lacking themselves, all odd them oriented towards YouTubers and podcasters...

!rant off

[SLiC]

I also don't understand example with midi only changing structure. From arrangement standpoint it is normal to shift whole song key(audio and midi), but neither Ableton, not Bitwig can do it. When I need it, I just use Cubase. Bitwig covers creative side for me.

Ableton 12 can now do it, it has key and scale awareness and the notes change to the selected scale when selected - there are about 40 scales built in, the usual stuff, modes, blues etc through to real odd ball stuff like Iwato - these scales don't just work on notes, they even work on things like filters through the rack- its well implemented.

[pdxindy]

Ableton 12 can now do it, it has key and scale awareness and the notes change to the selected scale when selected - there are about 40 scales built in, the usual stuff, modes, blues etc through to real odd ball stuff like Iwato - these scales don't just work on notes, they even work on things like filters through the rack- its well implemented.

Does the new Live 12 key/scale functionality allow the user to automate changes to key/scale during the project?

[pdxindy]

Ableton 12 can now do it, it has key and scale awareness and the notes change to the selected scale when selected

Bitwig has been able to do that for a while. It takes some setup, but is quite flexible in that the user can create whatever scale or set of notes that they want and it's easy to switch scales at any time. One can even create multiple scale/chord tracks and have different groups follow different scales/chords.

[SLiC]

... and ideally Ableton will look into improving audio editing in Live...

I find this really odd as audio, i.e. loops, is Live's raison d'être.

In fact, why every DAW isn't up to the standard, of say, Cool Edit Pro (Syntrillium version) is beyond me. I find individual tools quite lacking themselves, all odd them oriented towards YouTubers and podcasters...

!rant off

Lives approach was always to have the samples open in a 3rd party sample editor using the 'edit' button to open the sample selected in the 3rd party editor, I normally have it set to RX (opens with the sample in almost instantly) but lately have had it set to Meladyne as a fake ARA!

Having a button to open in an external editor window (like Cubase used to do with Wavelab) is actually a great feature so even if they add more basic audio editing in the DAW this is good for more advanced editing and is pretty seamless actually.

[SLiC]

Ableton 12 can now do it, it has key and scale awareness and the notes change to the selected scale when selected

Bitwig has been able to do that for a while. It takes some setup, but is quite flexible in that the user can create whatever scale or set of notes that they want and it's easy to switch scales at any time. One can even create multiple scale/chord tracks and have different groups follow different scales/chords.

It seems strange that the Bitwig developers won't add that then in a use friendly form? This really needs to be in the piano roll with fold to scale etc.

Not everyone likes having to use the Grid to do things- Like me saying you can automate key changes in a song if you write a MAX patch

[pdxindy]

Like me saying you can automate key changes in a song if you write a MAX patch

No, it's not like that. There is a significant learning curve to write Max patches.

It takes maybe a minute to set up in Bitwig. Polarity made a video that is simple to follow for anyone, even someone who has never used the Grid.

And yeah, it's not as straightforward as a dedicated function. The plus side is how flexible it is.

Anyway, I'm pointing it out for people who don't realize what is possible in Bitwig, not to dissuade someone who wants scale functions in the piano roll itself.

[a9k1tp]

I hope that Bitwig can devise a superior solution for MIDI editing compared to Ableton, much like they did with comping.

Bitwig doesn't even have standard comping yet, no Midi comping!

Much better audio comping than Ableton.
Yeah, no Midi comping, and everything Midi related is the weakest part compared to any DAW. They need to shift their focus on Midi.

[Trancit]

It's OK- I take your point and agree about the lack of basic midi (DAW) functionality! Bitwig is fantastic for sound creation and experimentation (its the modular of DAWS!) but it wouldn't be my go-to for 'detailed' audio or midi editing, that would be Studio One for me! I still think Live + PUSH is the best for...well, live production/recording and looping! All great tools, just pick the one that works for the project!

Personally, I dont think Live or Bitwig will ever match the more traditional DAWS at audio and midi editing, but they can and should definitely be 'better' and I think Live just did that- Over to you now Bitwig, lets see what 5.2 brings!

Fully agree... thx!

[Stan Navi]

I also don't understand example with midi only changing structure. From arrangement standpoint it is normal to shift whole song key(audio and midi), but neither Ableton, not Bitwig can do it. When I need it, I just use Cubase. Bitwig covers creative side for me.

Ableton 12 can now do it, it has key and scale awareness and the notes change to the selected scale when selected - there are about 40 scales built in, the usual stuff, modes, blues etc through to real odd ball stuff like Iwato - these scales don't just work on notes, they even work on things like filters through the rack- its well implemented.

So, you are saying that it can handle both audio and midi in Live 12?

[kmonkey]

Guys, what are you brag about? Both Bitwig and Ableton and every other DAW are awesome these days. Just go and make music. Enjoy their features or switch to the next one you like. Life is really too short.

[audiouser720]

Could anyone confirm if Live 12 has improved on midi timing? 11 is an absolute mess. Say you are syncing external hardware which has its own sequencer (drum machine, synth) using Live’s midi clock and it’s jittering all over the place. Even if you draw midi notes in Live. I mean many are aware of this issue, there are multiple videos online. However, Bitwig seems to be pretty much bang on, as long as you only run one synth / drum machine at a time. So I wonder if someone has teated this in Live 12, thanks.