Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[Igro]

Well I was reporting on Saurus, and there's no audible issue with the tail there. I just installed the ElectraX demo, and there is certainly no click in the tail....unlike the audio file.

So me and chk071 don't know how to sample a synth? Markus officially admitted before that the issue exists, but he won't fix it because it's to minor (for him).

There are no real clicks, it's just perceived this way because of to abrupt ending.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

I just checked Nemesis, Rayblaster, Saurus, and Icarus, and none of them has the problem that's being discussed here.
Elektrax indeed does (there are no clicks, though). However, while I agree this should (maybe) be taken care of, I must admit I fail to see how that could become such a big problem, unless one decides to pump up the volume of the decay segment and especially the last fraction of a second of sound to the max, which obviously goes totally against the very reason and logic behind the decay segment concept. At that point, one could use the sustain, add some release and get the same result.
Anyway, there are so many workarounds for something like this that any musician can resort to that I honestly do not think it's reasonable to make such a big deal out of it.
In any case, if you feel otherwise, I think you should report this to Markus (preferably after Icarus has been released), so he can fix it for the next update

[EnGee]

I just checked Nemesis, Rayblaster, Saurus, and Icarus, and none of them has the problem that's being discussed here.
Elektrax indeed does (there are no clicks, though). However, while I agree this should (maybe) be taken care of, I must admit I fail to see how that could become such a big problem, unless one decides to pump up the volume of the decay segment and especially the last fraction of a second of sound to the max, which obviously goes totally against the very reason and logic behind the decay segment concept. At that point, one could use the sustain, add some release and get the same result.
Anyway, there are so many workarounds for something like this that any musician can resort to that I honestly do not think it's reasonable to make such a big deal out of it.
In any case, if you feel otherwise, I think you should report this to Markus (preferably after Icarus has been released), so he can fix it for the next update

Thanks for the explanation and to your post in general. It's convincing. You have a point here. Let's wait for the release and then test if it has this decay problem and how much it can affect the sound and modulation.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

Thanks for the explanation and to your post in general. It's convincing. You have a point here. Let's wait for the release and then test if it has this decay problem and how much it can affect the sound and modulation.

Thank you I don't think Icarus will have this problem, the beta we're currently working with should be the final one, it seems to be stable and hasn't revealed any particular flaws so far, so the release version should hopefully be OK as far as this envelope behavior is concerned

[Ingonator]

Anyway, he just asked if Icarus has the same 'feature' to cut the unnecessary tail of the decay!

So, this envelop is not used in modulating anything? How do you know it has no effect? Did you report this to the developer? Is that his answer that it is not important?

As already mentioned Icarus does not have any problem at the Decay tail that i could notice by hearing, even at maximum voiume and with using headphones.
FWIW i just checked the filter envelope with a full Cutoff sweep and different Decay times (and with both the Amp envelope Sustain at 0 and higher values) and so far could also not find a Decay tail related issue there.

If i should be able to notice serious Decay related issues with Icarus (also with more complex patches and/or modulations) of course i will of course report it to Markus ASAP. I would then need a procedure to replicate that easily.

[EnGee]

Anyway, he just asked if Icarus has the same 'feature' to cut the unnecessary tail of the decay!

So, this envelop is not used in modulating anything? How do you know it has no effect? Did you report this to the developer? Is that his answer that it is not important?

As already mentioned Icarus does not have any problem at the Decay tail that i could notice by hearing, even at maximum voiume and with using headphones.
FWIW i just checked the filter envelope with a full Cutoff sweep and different Decay times (and with both the Amp envelope Sustain at 0 and higher values) and so far could also not find a Decay tail related issue there.

If i should be able to notice serious Decay related issues with Icarus (also with more complex patches and/or modulations) of course i will of course report it to Markus ASAP. I would then need a procedure to replicate that easily.

OK great then! Thanks.

[db3]

Well I was reporting on Saurus, and there's no audible issue with the tail there. I just installed the ElectraX demo, and there is certainly no click in the tail....unlike the audio file.

So me and chk071 don't know how to sample a synth? Markus officially admitted before that the issue exists, but he won't fix it because it's to minor (for him).

There are no real clicks, it's just perceived this way because of to abrupt ending.

Mac already put this to bed, but I will point out that there most certainly is an obvious click/pop in your example...
http://s9.postimg.org/xuxyndcnj/pop.png

My own Electra test showed no such noise, and I don't see a particularly abrupt end to the tail at -60dB.
http://s8.postimg.org/fv6ws12v9/tail.png

[Igro]

Well I was reporting on Saurus, and there's no audible issue with the tail there. I just installed the ElectraX demo, and there is certainly no click in the tail....unlike the audio file.

So me and chk071 don't know how to sample a synth? Markus officially admitted before that the issue exists, but he won't fix it because it's to minor (for him).

There are no real clicks, it's just perceived this way because of to abrupt ending.

Mac already put this to bed, but I will point out that there most certainly is an obvious click/pop in your example...
http://s9.postimg.org/xuxyndcnj/pop.png

My own Electra test showed no such noise, and I don't see a particularly abrupt end to the tail at -60dB.
http://s8.postimg.org/fv6ws12v9/tail.png

Hi db3. Could you share the audio file please? Mind you, that the previous example was not mine, but chk071, who has confirmed the issue. I will demo the synth soon and make my own test too.

Some people say that the issue is not that important in real life, but I find short-decayed sounds very unnatural.

[db3]

Hi db3. Could you share the audio file please?

Code: Select all

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bs5jv0cwzwtg376/electra-tail.wav

[Ingonator]

I just wanted to note that Markus is aware what is posted here concerning the "Decay issue". Like myself he could not find any issue in Icarus which at the moment is the most important fact concerning this thread.

For discussing other Tone2 synths it would be better to do that in a new thread.

[Ingonator]

Tone2 posted more new informations about Icarus at Facebook (which for Tone2 at the moment is the only place for official informations about Icarus):
https://www.facebook.com/Tone2Audiosoftware/

Icarus will contain a high-end quality vocoder module with 1024 bands. It's very easy to use: Simply click on 'Vocoder' and select a wav files which contains speech. Icarus will analyze the file and automatically create a patch.
Optionally you can apply one of the morph modes to shape the sound further. Playing the sound forwards and backwards, formant shifting, timestretching and looping is also possible.
The vocoder sound is automatically stored with your patches and songs. You won't have to care about managing files on your harddisk.

You could also use the Vocoder resynthesis with an existing patch (without automaitically creating a new one).

All custom waveforms and wavetables will be stored with the patch files (like in other Tone2 synths as Electra 2.1, Nemesis and Rayblaster).

[Numanoid]

Update March 18 at Tone2 facebook page, any real news here?:

You can use any of the 54 different 'morphmodes' to further shape the sound of your wavetables: Waveshaping, time-stretching, pitch- shifting, granulizing, stacking, PWM, formant shifting, BPM syncing, phase distortion, reversing, ringmodulation, sync, rearranging, FM, spectral editing, looping, denoising, mixing,...

Icarus offers three oscillator blocks with stereo architecture. Each oscillator block itself again can contain up to 10 detuned hypersaw oscillators. We've expanded the popular hypersaw concept with a stereo architecture, precise phase control, punch and the ability to make single oscillators play chords.

37 different modes are available, including, hypersaw, supersaw, stereo hypersaw, unison, stacking, chords and flanging.

The hypersaw modes can be combined with any kind of wavetable or morphing.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

They've added some very nice touches, too, that make it even more fun. We got the beta 7 version, I think the next could be the final release - I don't know for sure, of course, it's just my opinion.

[pdxindy]

Icarus will definitely get a demo from me when it comes out.

[Muziksculp]

Looking forward to Tone2's Icarus Synth.

The Vocoder feature should be very cool as well. http://rekkerd.org/tone2-reveals-detail ... th-plugin/