Why you left Bitwig?

[EnGee]

In version 5 it is much easier really (easier than Cubase as well!).

I can only say that I watched that video through last night and it seemed very convoluted compared to how easy it is in Cubase. I guess I could download the demo and see if it is worth the upgrade.

Personally, I think it worth it. It is almost an ideal DAW now. IMO of course.

By the way, I see that you have a Yamaha MODX. I have been thinking of buying one of those as I prefer the ease of using an external synth. How is the keybed and are the sounds any good in your opinion ?

I love it! Although it has several negative points. Overall, it is a fantastic synth/Rompler for the money.

The keybed is ok. Not high quality. My Arturia MK II has a much better keybed, so most of the times I play the keys of Arturia. Anyway, it is not bad, just a normal plasticky keybed (no aftertouch of course).
It has an audio interface but up to 24bit/48khz. It is a very good interface when using the phones, but in my case it causes noise when I connect it to the speakers while the PC is on. So, something about magnetic interference is going on, but I haven't tried a lot with it, I just use my Presonus iTwo .

I love the sounds. There are thousands of them. I haven't programmed any presets in FM X but it is much more than a DX7. The sounds not only from FM X but also usual samples, although you can use AWM2 as a VA, but I didn't bother. Drums are good and there are many many patterns.

It has a learning curve though (I'm still learning some of the hidden things!). It is messy little bit, so you need time to figure out some things. Anyway, it is a different beast than what we have from synths and instruments. Not quite as high as expensive libraries in Kontakt but they are immediately can be recalled and still sound good for me. There is no good sequencer, rather there are patterns that you can't edit! But do you need a sequencer really?!

It won't replace synths I have, but I do feel there is no need for Kontakt or any other big library. Try it yourself in a shop if you can and watch many videos on YouTube before you buy.

[dellboy]

Try it yourself in a shop if you can and watch many videos on YouTube before you buy.

Thanks for your mini review of the MODX.

Shops ? what are they ? Disappearing very fast here in the UK.

Seriously, we do have a big music superstore quite near but its still closed under lockdown. If and when it ever does re-open I shall pop up and give the MODX a try.

[EnGee]

Also consider a Korg opsix if you want just an FM synth.

[machinesworking]

That said, if I'm firing up a song and have no idea what I want to do, the older DAWs are a headache. It's literally no fun to think about mangling audio in them compared to Bitwig.

So yeah Logic and DP do not currently replace Bitwig and Live for me. Different approaches entirely .

There was a time (long time really) when I had a "writer's block". I couldn't come with anything of value for me at all! Things has changed lately and my mind is much clearer now. I always feel inspired now, but the problem I don't have a great motive to make something! Anyway, I'm trying to just enjoy myself doing something

So, as I said, I always have something in my mind and the DAW is there just to help me write what in my mind and organise the ideas. Live and Bitwig are better than Cubase and S1 in this, but it doesn't mean S1 and Cubase are bad in this! I used to use Cubase since VST 32 and Logic 4 (didn't have money before that). So, I'm used to "old" DAWs and I have no problem in using them.

The workflow, kind of music and taste are what make us different in using DAWs. I like to use the keyboard (PC keyboard) to navigate and to start/stop recording, while the mouse is for editing. I don't do many tracks and I don't do orchestral work. I also don't do EDM. So, for my kind of making music, most of DAWs are ok, but one with the most convenient shortcuts in Arrangement is essential for me. I mostly play and record what I play in midi mostly without editing because I like the feel of playing the whole section. Anyway, I'm not a good player, so I edit my mistakes instead of keep repeating.

In your case Live would be the worst then.

I use DAWs in two ways:
1. As composing tools for ideas already in my head. - For this DAWs like DP10, Logic and Cubase are best IMO, because of the decades of keyboard shortcuts and solutions to problems end users had.

2. As sampler workstations- Basically Bitwig and Live are set up like phrase samplers to me. So I can record in audio or MIDI to a session clip as an idea for a song, or take a part I think would work in a song and expand on it. Like someone mentioned the way Bitwig is set up is more like an instrument than a DAW like Pro Tools.

I really love the old school DAWs, I want SysEx dumps, event lists, mad grouping settings, CPU efficiency etc. but they do not feel like an instrument, there's no impetus to just mess around on them until something come out of it. In almost every case with them I'm playing an actual instrument first, that generates either most of or all of the parts to a song, then I'm opening up the DAW etc.
I've started any number of songs based on a sample, just a part of something maybe even non musical sounding that I thought could be used to come up with something. You can do this in DP, Cubase etc. but it's vastly more work, thinking of a song I wrote in 2001 that had the basis of it from a crash in DP where int literally generated audio files as it crashed. Matching tempo on those, so that "looping" them was accurate determined the tempo of the song etc. All of this is easier now, but even then, Biwig would be the obvious choice for this.

That you have Cubase and Studio One as DAW choices says you've never really gotten good use out of Clips though, so a more traditional DAW makes sense. Clips and a good pitch and time stretching algorithm opens up a DAW to basically being a mega sampler IMO. I started composing with MIDI sequencers and a Mirage so the basis was always how you could mangle sound, so Live then Bitwig made total sense to me.

[pdxindy]

I use DAWs in two ways:
1. As composing tools for ideas already in my head. - For this DAWs like DP10, Logic and Cubase are best IMO, because of the decades of keyboard shortcuts and solutions to problems end users had.

2. As sampler workstations- Basically Bitwig and Live are set up like phrase samplers to me. So I can record in audio or MIDI to a session clip as an idea for a song, or take a part I think would work in a song and expand on it. Like someone mentioned the way Bitwig is set up is more like an instrument than a DAW like Pro Tools.

I really love the old school DAWs, I want SysEx dumps, event lists, mad grouping settings, CPU efficiency etc. but they do not feel like an instrument, there's no impetus to just mess around on them until something come out of it. In almost every case with them I'm playing an actual instrument first, that generates either most of or all of the parts to a song, then I'm opening up the DAW etc.
I've started any number of songs based on a sample, just a part of something maybe even non musical sounding that I thought could be used to come up with something. You can do this in DP, Cubase etc. but it's vastly more work, thinking of a song I wrote in 2001 that had the basis of it from a crash in DP where int literally generated audio files as it crashed. Matching tempo on those, so that "looping" them was accurate determined the tempo of the song etc. All of this is easier now, but even then, Biwig would be the obvious choice for this.

That you have Cubase and Studio One as DAW choices says you've never really gotten good use out of Clips though, so a more traditional DAW makes sense. Clips and a good pitch and time stretching algorithm opens up a DAW to basically being a mega sampler IMO. I started composing with MIDI sequencers and a Mirage so the basis was always how you could mangle sound, so Live then Bitwig made total sense to me.

Even if Bitwig didn't have the Clip Launcher, I would still gravitate towards it for the modulation system. I can do stuff in Bitwig, both with Bitwig instruments and VST's that I couldn't in other DAW's, at least not easily with such an inviting workflow.

Likewise, using Bitwig modulation for hardware is also a unique strong point.

[EnGee]

@machinesworking:
I can still use Live and Bitwig to be honest. As I said, I can work with any DAW (I also own licenses for FL Studio Producer and Samplitude X3). My requirements are not that many.

The thing is choosing the best for me overall because I can afford it. I also can afford to keep them all but I can't afford to update them all (except for FLS and Reaper). So, I need to choose a main DAW that I keep it up to date.

I don't use audio and I don't do sampling. I'm not looking for 100% replica of what's in my mind. The most important for me is the idea of the musical piece and how to express it with the synths/drums I have. So, I don't use audio loops nor have a need to stretch audio. I just use midi patterns for drums sometimes.

I agree with you though that what we used to, defines what's the workflow we are looking for, so for me, S1 makes sense because I come from mostly Cubase background.

I tried all other workflows and DAWs because I like new ideas. I still like a lot Bitwig and Live, but jumping from DAW to DAW is not useful for me as one song requires one DAW mostly because it's not practical to export midi and automation every time I start new idea!

[SLiC]

Yes, Bitwigs unified modulation system is its most outstanding feature. It can bring any synth to life, even over CV and has a brilliantly simple to use implementation. The clip launcher is just ‘another feature’ to me, others do that at least as well (although not on the same screen as the linear editor).

With Bitwig it’s not what it does, it’s the way that it does it....that’s what gets results

[MuzikFreq]

The modulation of bitwig really is an amazing feature as it saves a ton of money as you can make the tools you need or want and can experiment. Polygrid and fxgrid further expands on that as well.

[machinesworking]

S1 makes sense because I come from mostly Cubase background.

I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase.
Cubase is IMO part of the big three old school more weird features than you can use DAWs: Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase all offer more features than you can possibly need. Studio One seems like to me a Ableton-ized version of Cubase.

I tried all other workflows and DAWs because I like new ideas. I still like a lot Bitwig and Live, but jumping from DAW to DAW is not useful for me as one song requires one DAW mostly because it's not practical to export midi and automation every time I start new idea!

I feel you, I started out with Digital Performer 2, moved to Logic 4, then later added Live 3. Switched back to DP7 and Live until v10. Then last year realized both my DAWs did not support MPE. So I picked up Logic X, then Reaper, then Bitwig. So far I'm still using DP10, (which could change to Logic if DP11 is a let down), and Bitwig.

All of that could change depending on how these DAW move to Apple Silicon. I'm going to get the 16" version when it comes out this summer or fall. Bitwig and Reaper will probably be first native besides Logic of course.

Mostly though, the only thing I move to a new DAW is end to end rendered audio. I would much rather mix to a stereo final track in DP or Logic than Live or Bitwig.

[EnGee]

S1 has a better performance than Cubase on Windows. Windows management and workflow are also better.

I'm also thinking of a M1 (or M1X) Mac instead of upgrading my Ryzen 1600x PC. Mostly after one year or so, as my PC still run great. At that time I will see. I might return to Logic (last time used Logic Pro 9 on a hackintosh) or use one of the DAWs I have

[Ah_Dziz]

I am using it more than ever. The fx selectors and the grid allow for some serious sound design very quickly. I'd love to see them implement some spectral processing features into their core devices.
Usually when I use Bitwig I am (almost) exclusively using the built in stuff along with samples. I don't think I could come close to using it as my main daw, but when it's time to get weird it's the first place I turn. Just like when I am making hip hop I go straight for maschine. When it's time to get super tweaky Bitwig is a beast. I also very much enjoy how well it supports lots of my old favorite weird plugins.
When I got it for basically free with my nektar panarama controller, I did abandon it quite quickly. It had massive stability issues and seemed to be the worst DAW I'd tried as far as management of cpu. I didn't go back until I beta tested v3 and played with the grid. It's become a nice environment over time.

[killmaster]

It seems like the ideal DAW for me and I never think to use any of my other DAWs now. (Though I am going to check out Gleetchlab!)

[SLiC]

S1 makes sense because I come from mostly Cubase background.

I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase.
Cubase is IMO part of the big three old school more weird features than you can use DAWs: Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase all offer more features than you can possibly need. Studio One seems like to me a Ableton-ized version of Cubase.

I was with Cubase from the start (when it was just Cubase VST) and stuck with it until V9. I tried (and bought) S1 during cross grade offer and after using both for several years eventfully just 'preferred' Studio One, it also has much better hardware support from Presonus (faderports, ATOMS, full mixers etc)

It wasn't about the feature list - I probably used less than half of the features from either...it was just the clean interface, drag and drop, window free environment. Good Melodyne integration didn't hurt either as it is my preferred audio tool anyway. Since then I have also come to love the pattern editor (and bought an ATOM SQ), the dedicated mastering page and the smart tool. Its cool you can Insert plugins on actual events, not just tracks...but for all I know Cubase may be able to do that now as well...they call end up copying each other!

[antic604]

I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase...

My personal reasons (of what Cubase does "wrong"):
- terrible workflow for adding automation
- even worse workflow for mapping MIDI controller to VST parameters
- notes in piano roll are drawn "between" keys (it's hella confusing)
- mixer wastes a lot more screen space to achieve the same functionality
- no native signal splitter & no visual device chaining
- still doesn't support high-DPI (other than 200%) screens properly
- doesn't really work with touchpad gestures
- feels like it's hanging together by a piece of string & some spit
- dongle (yeah, hopefully not for long)

They're probably trivial, but HUGE for me

[apoclypse]

S1 makes sense because I come from mostly Cubase background.

I've never really understood why people choose Studio One over Cubase.
Cubase is IMO part of the big three old school more weird features than you can use DAWs: Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase all offer more features than you can possibly need. Studio One seems like to me a Ableton-ized version of Cubase.

If features were all that mattered everyone would be using Reaper. The way S1 works is what draw people to it. It's workflow really can't be beat, especially in comparison to Cubase. Also the big three as you put it, are old, the doesn't necessarily make them better. Like you said more features than you can use. There are so many features in Logic that people don't even know what the DAW can do. Half the time you used to see feature requests on the Logic Pro forums only for someone to chime in that Logic already does that. I'm sure Cubase has the same issue.


I wouldn't call it an Ableton-ized Cubase exactly, more like a Logic-ized Cubase.