The same level - this is a compressing/limiting plugin so the relationship between peak level and average RMS is going to change when it is working at all. Even if normalised the processed signal is going to be louder than a normalised source signal. Trying it yourself is the only way - if you are reluctant to learn how to operate it what is the point of owning it?krank wrote:Can anyone give an example of VW being used to good effect, ie. provide a link to the same audio with and without it? Must be at the same level.
Magneto vs. PSP Vintage Warmer
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
Yeah, and I'm not saying anyone else shouldn't like the way they sound, I just haven't heard a "warmer" I like yet. That and to beware of the increased volume appearing to make it sound better.The Chase wrote:heh. I think VW sounds great. I wish I could afford it. Magento is great, too, but I liked the sound of vintage warmer more. Even if it was the vise-versa I would go for VW in case you want to leave cubase
However for my distortion I use all freebies. Most of which people say are very "digital".
To be honest I'm tired of the "oh that sounds so not-analog" attitude from guitar fanboys. It's a bit elitest, no? On the other hand if one is raised around analog and uses analog gear forever, their ears will be acute to certain sounds that they wont find present in digital plugs. Nothing wrong with that. Just preference/taste.
.
Jeff
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
egbert wrote:[
Sure - everybody has their favorite sounds, favorite instruments and probably nothing else quite measures up to what we know and love.
If you want to check out any others you could try the PSP Mix Saturator, any of the compressors and other plugins which add some saturation - Blockfish, Crunchessor, Lampthruster, Warmifier, Marquis Comp, GCO etc.
I've tried most of those at one time or another. The Mauquis comp demo sounds pretty good, but it's a comp not a Tape Emulation. I can't really justify buying it though because I have the UAD-1 suite of plugs and all of their compressors are top notch. They are definitely "colorful" compressors. They don't sound like analog tape either though.
The amp sims are still a ways off the mark yet. Getting better all the time though. I'm hopeful that all of these things will be great in the future. I believe it CAN be done, it just hasn't yet.
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
Perhaps Voxengo's Analog Flux Tapebus is more suitable there.Guitarjeff wrote:I've tried most of those at one time or another. The Mauquis comp demo sounds pretty good, but it's a comp not a Tape Emulation.
Yes - Midiworks new guitar amp shows some promise. Some of the hardware modelling units are not bad at all. These (as you are surely aware) are almost all software based - although the Vox Tonelab uses a tube for its power amp modelling.The amp sims are still a ways off the mark yet. Getting better all the time though. I'm hopeful that all of these things will be great in the future. I believe it CAN be done, it just hasn't yet.
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
I've tried the Analog Tapebus as well. It still sounds like harsh noise (in smaller doses than some admittedly) Still not something I'd personally use. Better than most though.
Yes, midiworks amp sim shows promise and I'm very interested to try the final product.
I own a POD, and it's great for monitoring. I almost always record a POD signal and a direct signal at the same time then re amp the direct signal later with my tube amps after I get the take I want. For leads I sometimes mix the POD and reamped sounds together.
Cheers
Jeff
Yes, midiworks amp sim shows promise and I'm very interested to try the final product.
I own a POD, and it's great for monitoring. I almost always record a POD signal and a direct signal at the same time then re amp the direct signal later with my tube amps after I get the take I want. For leads I sometimes mix the POD and reamped sounds together.
Cheers
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
Guitarjeff wrote:I almost always record a POD signal and a direct signal at the same time then re amp the direct signal later with my tube amps after I get the take I want. For leads I sometimes mix the POD and reamped sounds together.
Sounds interesting I was just thinking of doing this with some bass samples and my tube preamp.
What do you use between your audio interface TRS output and you guitar amp to match level/impedance etc?
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- Banned
- 1966 posts since 2 Mar, 2004
give tube booster http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1533.html
a try. it's free and imo really brings live into a tack. (try it with the presets I did which you can download at the given link at the end of my review)
cheers, akj
a try. it's free and imo really brings live into a tack. (try it with the presets I did which you can download at the given link at the end of my review)
cheers, akj
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deleted deleted https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1
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- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Wow, I didn't know people felt so strongly about warming plugins!
If it means anything, I find these warming/tube/non-linear plug-ins very useful for helping instruments to sit in mixes; especially as I make music all-in-the-DAW, except guitar and bass, which I do put through a (real) tube pre-amp. And for you purists, yes, the tube pre really helps.
But I do dig the software options too.
Guitarjeffs, I know I've had some songs where using software warmers had really helped. If I can dig up a before/after, I'll post something. But I understand. I mean, if it doesn't sound better - don't use it!
If it means anything, I find these warming/tube/non-linear plug-ins very useful for helping instruments to sit in mixes; especially as I make music all-in-the-DAW, except guitar and bass, which I do put through a (real) tube pre-amp. And for you purists, yes, the tube pre really helps.
But I do dig the software options too. Guitarjeffs, I know I've had some songs where using software warmers had really helped. If I can dig up a before/after, I'll post something. But I understand. I mean, if it doesn't sound better - don't use it!
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- KVRAF
- 8726 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
That's definitely a huge warning. I've read many topics where it's reasonably obvious people have been taken in by volume. That's one of the first things I do scrupulously with almost any FX plugin - tweak outputs so that the peak volume is exactly the same as dry.That and to beware of the increased volume appearing to make it sound better.
Ever since doing that, I've been alot more selective in what FX I buy...too many sound completely ineffective without a volume hoodwink.
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- KVRian
- 664 posts since 5 Jun, 2005
kritikon,
But with compressors (VW is a kind of compressor, right?), the perceived volume may increase even as peaks are lowered, yet that doesn't mean they sound good. And even if they do appear to sound good at first (maybe due to the increased perceived loudness), the sound may be processed in a way that will fatigue the ears over time.
That's what I find so difficult in trying to evaluate compressor, limiters, warmifiers, saturators, whatever. The short-term improvements may sacrifice long-term listening quality - and you may not even realise it until after listening to the processed material countless times. What what it's worth, I recall an experienced mastering engineer objecting heavily to the use of VW.
I don't know what to think - except to prefer a minimalist approach with as little processing as possible. Then to heck if it doesn't sound like it came out of Nashville.
But with compressors (VW is a kind of compressor, right?), the perceived volume may increase even as peaks are lowered, yet that doesn't mean they sound good. And even if they do appear to sound good at first (maybe due to the increased perceived loudness), the sound may be processed in a way that will fatigue the ears over time.
That's what I find so difficult in trying to evaluate compressor, limiters, warmifiers, saturators, whatever. The short-term improvements may sacrifice long-term listening quality - and you may not even realise it until after listening to the processed material countless times. What what it's worth, I recall an experienced mastering engineer objecting heavily to the use of VW.
I don't know what to think - except to prefer a minimalist approach with as little processing as possible. Then to heck if it doesn't sound like it came out of Nashville.
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 12 Jun, 2004
so it`s possible to upload some audio examples of tube vitalizer? Is it really a tube vitalizer or the mk2-T-version of it?dxl wrote:IMO if you want saturation or warmming effect, they both are not good but bad either
in software relaim, Sony Inflantor or UAD-1 collection would in most cases have better warmming coloring effect. i havent tried out SPECTRALIVE so... donno...
having a SPL tube vitalizer as a send effect ....
before and after with short comments would be nice? Will know if tube vitalizer is comparable to spectralive and vice visa.
_____
To the thread opener and others: Maybe a tape deck would give you more tape-sound as the most plugs can. The only problem to handle with is the noise.
Very expensive but without tapes and noise: Rupert Neve Portice 5042 Tape Emulation or Hedd192 or fatso ..
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- KVRAF
- 8726 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
I don't really see how a tube Vitaliser can be comparable to Spectralive. Crysonic have said they don't use harmonic enhancement, and I believe them, both from what I hear when I use it, and from what I see in analysers.
That's one of the reasons I was never very keen on SPL units - harmonics, and therefore too harsh, whether tube or not. Just my personal taste though...I know many who still like them. They're different processes though.
That's one of the reasons I was never very keen on SPL units - harmonics, and therefore too harsh, whether tube or not. Just my personal taste though...I know many who still like them. They're different processes though.
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
I use the X- Amp box. Works like a charm!!egbert wrote:Guitarjeff wrote:I almost always record a POD signal and a direct signal at the same time then re amp the direct signal later with my tube amps after I get the take I want. For leads I sometimes mix the POD and reamped sounds together.
Sounds interesting I was just thinking of doing this with some bass samples and my tube preamp.
What do you use between your audio interface TRS output and you guitar amp to match level/impedance etc?
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 2028 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from New York, N.Y.
I have an old MXR distortion that I use live, have for years and love it. I've been using NI AC30 Combo VST for my high gain sounds. Do you think I'd be better off using the MXR and then just use a clean setting on the AC30 VST?Guitarjeff wrote:The thing is. I like distortion from my Marshall or My soldano because it's nice warm analog distortion caused by hot tubes. IE: It actually sounds good!
If I use a stomp box for extra gain it's going to be my Tube Screamer which is an analog circuit. Digital is great for Choruses and delays, but the distortion sounds horrible to my ears. (I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't heard anything I like yet. )
I'd rather record a DI bass through a good pre and compressor than try to add digital noise later.
If these "warmers" sounded good to my ears,I'd be all over them, but I haven't heard one I like yet.
Jeff
Also, what do you think of the Simulanalog Tube Screamer? People seem to be raving about their plugs...
(I anticipate the usual "try it yourself and see if you like" it responses, but I ask GuitarJeff because he's obviously tried a lot of these products).