KVR Audio

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:43 pm

Vincent Burel wrote:
crimsonwarlock wrote:I said that I won't USE a dongle. I never said that it had to do anything with the price.
ok, and then ! you want to buy my product without dongle ?

Short answer: YES !

Longer answer: Why didn't you reply THIS in the first place. See, THAT would be a constructive discussion. Instead of assuming that I was a prospective customer you assumed I didn't want to buy your plugins anyway. Well, I didn't make any suggestion that I was trolling with you, and I was SERIOUSLY interested in buying your stuff. So the only reason for your quick assumption would be the fact that you don't want to consider selling your plugins without a dongle and in the process you though you could treat me as some script-kiddy

So bottom line: NOT ANYMORE !

For those jumping into this thread and starting to make their own assumptions: If a developer sels plugins WITH a dongle, does that mean that I, as a prospective customer, can NOT have a constructive discussion with such a developer about that dongle ? If so, then this community has seriously gone bonkers

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:54 pm

TotcProductions wrote:No criticizm intended, this is true mr. Burel. With so many devices in our studios being powered by our computer via USB, it's eventually going to slow us down if we need to have a hub excepting all of those extra dongles...I've got 4 USB 2.0 Ports that come with my board...i've added a small hub to accomadate more, but the point is, they're all still going to the same ports, and things are gonna start slowing down because of that. I'm not suggesting you drop the dongle, it's obviously working well for you, but It looks like your dongle doesn't use the iLok system, so I'll need to take up another hub using yours.

See, it's even needed that we start to explain things like this. Isn't this becomming a bit stupid. Isn't it obvious already why people DON'T WANT DONGLES. Do we really need to draw pictures and give directions to devs that doesn't think about customers but about their revenu first. Don't you guys learn anything from a debacle like the Sony Rootkit stuff. No matter how you put it, copy protection is hurting any business more then piracy simply because it hurts the PAYING CUSTOMER.

Damit, I didn't want to get cought in a dongle debate, I stayed away from the Arturia thing. I was just interested in the Striptool plugins, not knowing (then) that they where dongled as well. When Vincent Burel came into this discussion I thought I would be able to discuss this issue with him in a constructive manner. I only stated I didn't want to use a dongle and I got a very unfair treatment in return.

Well, my feet are back on solid ground with the realisation that not only KVR's community but the developer community as well is a cross-section of society as a whole

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:09 pm

I don't know...do you think he's really that bad or could it be the language barrier? I get the feeling he's trying to say one thing, and it's not coming accross properly - I don't understand all of his comments about the dongle issue myself.

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:28 am

bduffy wrote:Is this dongle a standard iLok dongle, or is this incompatible? I really can't have 4-5 USB dongles running, it's abusrd to think it's OK for audio guys to have all those resources being taken up by USB hubs.

I use Aladdin HardLock Dongle, and this dongle is full compatible with iLock.

Regards
Vincent Burel

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:53 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:Longer answer: Why didn't you reply THIS in the first place. See, THAT would be a constructive discussion. Instead of assuming that I was a prospective customer you assumed I didn't want to buy your plugins anyway. Well, I didn't make any suggestion that I was trolling with you, and I was SERIOUSLY interested in buying your stuff. So the only reason for your quick assumption would be the fact that you don't want to consider selling your plugins without a dongle and in the process you though you could treat me as some script-kiddy So bottom line: NOT ANYMORE !

What i call a constructive discussion is when there is a way to earn money or to explain something about one of my products to user / customers. If you want to explain me how i should sell plug-in, first do it, and after i will listen to you.

I remind it again : I CAN'T SELL PLUG-IN WITHOUT DONGLE. I can understand how it's boring to have many dongle, i can understand that you would buy product without dongle. But the reality is that MY PRODUCT ARE SOLD WITH A DONGLE. And you can explain me what you want, i'm in the Plug-in Market since around 10 years, and i began by selling plug-in without dongle.

In my case, uni-personal company, with a small distribution network, specialized on the professional market, if i provide a plug-in without dongle , i know exactely what will happend : every kids here are happy, mass market is laughing, i sell 10 units in 3 month, and nothing after. Why ? because a simple law : People don't buy if they are not obliged to buy.

Regards
Vincent Burel

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:02 am

I think if you had given this reply on the second page of this thread everything would have been fine...

silicon/silicium · Post by **silicon/silicium** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 am

+1 for Jens

Whoever said Vincent Burel is a dumbass is a little out of line IMO.

I apologized with the reasons why I had such words some posts above

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:30 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:When Vincent Burel came into this discussion I thought I would be able to discuss this issue with him in a constructive manner. I only stated I didn't want to use a dongle and I got a very unfair treatment in return.

no sorry, i was not unfair, you were knowing perfectly that i'm selling Product with Dongle, and you said to me that you won't buy it because the dongle, because it's insane or unacceptable to sell plug-in with a dongle ! this discussion began by a troll. You said that you were interested in the Striptool ! but finally you focus on the fact that you don't want to use a dongle ! this is again a troll because this is not the subject. If you would like to really use my Striptool, the dongle wouldn't be a problem like it's not a problem for all my customer.

The experience shows me that if someone don't want to buy something, they always find a reason. And in your case, i franckly believe that you wouldn't buy my Striptool even if it was not sold with dongle

Regards
Vincent Burel

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:40 am

Sorry jens & silicon/silicium.
Ironically I was about to post something along the lines of 'yeah o.k., language barrier & all that & one can understand his point'.
But the post above is more than judgemental, no need for initmating that Crimsonwarlock is just trolling or to imply that he's just a warez kid.
VB doesn't appear to understand that the dongle is indeed problem for some people (justified/rational or not).
VB's plugs appear to be not widely known around here, as evinced by Crimson not realisng they were still for sale & others in the thread being pleasantly suprised by them - so it shouldn't be all that suprising that CrimsonWarlock wasn't totally au-fait with the cp scheme etc.
He also wasn't offensive in any way when he stated that dongles are a no-no for him, he simply stated a fact - then it all started to degenerate.
Personally I reckon this one should just be left & forgotten - as it has the potential to become a bit heated now.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:46 am

Vincent Burel wrote:
I remind it again : I CAN'T SELL PLUG-IN WITHOUT DONGLE.

Why? Its been proven it doesnt stop software theft.!

Vincent Burel wrote: I can understand how it's boring to have many dongle

Boring? No, its inconvienient!

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:52 am

Vincent Burel wrote:
bduffy wrote:Is this dongle a standard iLok dongle, or is this incompatible? I really can't have 4-5 USB dongles running, it's abusrd to think it's OK for audio guys to have all those resources being taken up by USB hubs.
I use Aladdin HardLock Dongle, and this dongle is full compatible with iLock.

Regards
Vincent Burel

I'm confused now: does that mean I don't have to use your dongle? I can just download the license to my iLok? That's fine. So if I have an iLok, I don't have to buy the $50 dongle?

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:00 am

diverdee wrote:But the post above is more than judgemental, no need for initmating that Crimsonwarlock is just trolling or to imply that he's just a warez kid.

"judgemental ?" Wow ! Crimsonwarlock is not a troller or warez guy, but he engaged the discussion with me as a troller. This is that i would like to explain him.

Next time, i won't reply to this kind of joke : "hey you sell plug with dongle but i don't want dongle, what do we do !?"

Regards
Vincent Burel

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:03 am

Kriminal wrote:
Vincent Burel wrote:
I remind it again : I CAN'T SELL PLUG-IN WITHOUT DONGLE.

Why? Its been proven it doesnt stop software theft.!

by who ? which brand ?

regards
Vincent Burel

Vincent Burel · Post by **Vincent Burel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:06 am

bduffy wrote:
Vincent Burel wrote: I use Aladdin HardLock Dongle, and this dongle is full compatible with iLock.
I'm confused now: does that mean I don't have to use your dongle? I can just download the license to my iLok? That's fine. So if I have an iLok, I don't have to buy the $50 dongle?

no, you must own my dongle to make my plug-in work. But the system is compatible with iLock one, it means that they can work together without any trouble.

Regards
Vincent Burel

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:10 am

Vincent Burel wrote:
diverdee wrote:But the post above is more than judgemental, no need for initmating that Crimsonwarlock is just trolling or to imply that he's just a warez kid.
"judgemental ?" Wow ! Crimsonwarlock is not a troller or warez guy, but he engaged the discussion with me as a troller. This is that i would like to explain him.

Next time, i won't reply to this kind of joke : "hey you sell plug with dongle but i don't want dongle, what do we do !?"

Regards
Vincent Burel

Ok - maybe there is a language barrier thing going on.
Reading Crimsonwarlocks post:

Crimsonwarlock wrote:However, I also found that your plugins require a dongle which is not so great. I'm sorry to say that dongles are a definite NO for me. So I have to stick with Striptool V1 as it is the only one NOT needing a dongle.

To bad, as I'm re-building my studio I was seriously interested in your plugins but this is a show-stopper for me

I interpret that as the guy saying he likes striptool V1, was interested in the others, doesn't like dongles & will therefore stick with V1 - no trolling, no badmouthing, joking or anything.
Simple, doesn't ask for dongleless versions or anything like that.
Whatever... i'm out, as this is confusing - it's like we're reading 2 different sets of posts.

Anything else like VB-striptool (free) ?