Request for native Linux Support

[abique]

If you give a PC to someone like me who is experienced in both Windows and Linux admin

Yes, the key there is experienced in Linux admin... I have no interest in being experienced in Linux admin... and Linux forces you to be so. It is not the fault of Linux... it is just how it is. Once you start trying to do stuff, you find that software X has some problem and the fix is something else, but that needs to be compiled and there you are down the rabbit hole.

With OSX, I rarely ever think about it at all... I just do what I want and it is out of the way... Linux aint that!

I don't know what you tried to achieve, but your comment is totally unfair. When was your last Linux try?

This thread is not to convince people to switch to Linux, if you're happy to give your money to M$ or Apple, then go on. They'll enslave you with their IP..... and put GMO in your plate .
This thread is about leading u-he to its bright future on Linux.

[GruvSyco]

wow... you think his comment was unfair? The topic of Linux is a bad as religion. It shouldn't be.

[DuX]

To the "infidels" I can only say that Linux these days is in some aspects far smoother than installing Windows. When it comes to *rare* problems, yes - you have to get into editing config files, but the solutions are so easy to find and easy to apply, too. For me, setting up Windows is more cumbersome lately. I'd rather just install Debian with Gnome, Xfce or LXDE desktop shell and move onto using the OS immediately, because it is that easy to install and use it. Majority of the right apps are there by default also, so you don't have to browse, download and install from the web. Just fire up the Synaptics Package Manager, find the app and install it. No fuss, no fuss at all. Also, *if* the drivers are working by default you have a very smooth ride and mostly they do. If they don't, it's just a matter of Googling for a few minutes, if needed and firing up the Synaptics Package Manager again... no big deal. No browsing around. I'm utterly serious. You "infidels" should give it a go sometime. Linux is "there" now and it's a great and very powerful and smooth working OS. You're in for a surprise. I'm writing this from Debian 7.5 with Gnome DE. Not worrying about viruses and pretty much anything. It's just a smooth ride. No worries at all. But I'm forced to work with audio in Windows XP or 7, of course... I have *disabled all networking* in both, of course part 2 because I don't want to risk anything with MS OSes being connected to the web.

I'm praying that more people will finally understand this as soon as possible and that we'll get some more commercial plugins for Linux soon. I have and use EnergyXT 2 [bravo Jorgen!] and I use Ardour and Audacity for now for some marginal work. It would be really nice to see more VSTs and especially VSTis for Linux because I think Linux is the future. All proprietary OSes will at some point go down, I'm sure. Linux doesn't depend on shareholders.

[chk071]

Well, i'm sure the average Windows user will have a couple of problems with what you describe as easy.

I'd rather just install Debian with Gnome, Xfce or LXDE desktop shell and move onto using the OS immediately, because it is that easy to install and use it.

Gnome, XFCE, LXDE and sorts will be totally unknown to the average Windows user. Because he only knows one desktop.

Majority of the right apps are there by default also, so you don't have to browse, download and install from the web. Just fire up the Synaptics Package Manager, find the app and install it. No fuss, no fuss at all.

Usually it's pretty easy to install programs on Windows. You download the exe, and install it. Synapse, or worse, the terminal will be pretty difficult to use for someone who is used to such an easy way to install programs. That's why the major distros have their own software managers now. Which often don't work very nice, i must add.

Also, *if* the drivers are working by default you have a very smooth ride and mostly they do. If they don't, it's just a matter of Googling for a few minutes, if needed and firing up the Synaptics Package Manager again... no big deal. No browsing around.

Don't forget though that newer hardware is often not very good supported. And for old hardware, you could get open source drivers, e.g. for the graphics hardware, which lacks certain functions, making it impossible to play games for example.

Not worrying about viruses and pretty much anything. It's just a smooth ride. No worries at all.

If 20% of the home computer users would use Linux, there'd already be a lot of viruses for Linux too. The reason why there's so much malware for Windows is its popularity, not it's security invulnerability.

It's not impossible for someone new to Linux to use it of course, but it required the willingness to learn it. And some people aren't willing to learn it, they just want to do their stuff. Actually it starts with installing the OS already. Who of the average PC users will be willing to do that? I don't think patronizing is the way anyway. If the people want to use it, they will use it. No need to evangelize.

[pdxindy]

If you give a PC to someone like me who is experienced in both Windows and Linux admin

Yes, the key there is experienced in Linux admin... I have no interest in being experienced in Linux admin... and Linux forces you to be so. It is not the fault of Linux... it is just how it is. Once you start trying to do stuff, you find that software X has some problem and the fix is something else, but that needs to be compiled and there you are down the rabbit hole.

With OSX, I rarely ever think about it at all... I just do what I want and it is out of the way... Linux aint that!

I don't know what you tried to achieve, but your comment is totally unfair. When was your last Linux try?

This thread is not to convince people to switch to Linux, if you're happy to give your money to M$ or Apple, then go on. They'll enslave you with their IP..... and put GMO in your plate .
This thread is about leading u-he to its bright future on Linux.

I have a Linux server in my closet...

Last time I tried to do any graphics stuff on a Linux machine was about a year ago. Wanted to do some page layout. Scribus was unreliable... tried another one which I don't remember the name of, and it was wonky too.

[pdxindy]

To the "infidels" I can only say that Linux these days is in some aspects far smoother than installing Windows.

I installed Ubuntu recently... it was easy. The issue with Linux is not Linux, it is when you want to do something with it!

[danboid]

Gnome, XFCE, LXDE and sorts will be totally unknown to the average Windows user. Because he only knows one desktop.

Windows 8 has forced MS die-hards to learn a new desktop. KDE, XFCE and Cinnamon are more like Windows 7 / XP than Windows 8 is.

Usually it's pretty easy to install programs on Windows. You download the exe, and install it. Synapse, or worse, the terminal will be pretty difficult to use for someone who is used to such an easy way to install programs. That's why the major distros have their own software managers now. Which often don't work very nice, i must add.

Synaptic is pretty difficult to use? Really? It'd take an absolute newcomer all of 5 minutes to learn how to use a Linux package manager and it usually involves less clicks to install multiple apps than it does a single app under Windows.

Are MS paying you guys for all this? I hope so!

[abique]

I have a Linux server in my closet...

Last time I tried to do any graphics stuff on a Linux machine was about a year ago. Wanted to do some page layout. Scribus was unreliable... tried another one which I don't remember the name of, and it was wonky too.

Ok, so we're trying to fix our issue on Linux, missing software.

[pdxindy]

Are MS paying you guys for all this? I hope so!

This is a friendly forum... perhaps you can be a little less aggressive...

[pdxindy]

I have a Linux server in my closet...

Last time I tried to do any graphics stuff on a Linux machine was about a year ago. Wanted to do some page layout. Scribus was unreliable... tried another one which I don't remember the name of, and it was wonky too.

Ok, so we're trying to fix our issue on Linux, missing software.

I have no issue on Linux... cause I don't use it except as a server.

I do think Bitwig and U-he plug-ins would make a potent Linux combo. I suppose the practical question is would there be enough sales to justify the cost of development and long term support. I'm doubtful it would be worth it.

Urs and the U-he team will make their choices of how they think their time is best spent. I can only say that I would rather have Bazille and Presswerk and Zebra 3 sooner on OSX rather than later because time was spent developing for Linux.

[Burillo]

abique, your problem is that you live in your bubble of "i know this, so it must be easy for everyone else". i myself am no stranger to Linux (two Chakra installs on my home laptop and Ubuntu-based home server with PXE boot to Debian set up), and love it for what it is. just a few weeks ago i was reinstalling my laptop because my HDD died, and it took me an hour to install and set up two (!) Linuxes and took me a whole day to install and set up Windows 7 (all the drivers, all the basic stuff like a PDF reader, messenger, LibreOffice etc.). i often don't even bother booting to Windows on my laptop since my Linux desktop boots 3 times faster than Windows 7 ever will, and it's good enough for most of my everyday needs (emails, movies, browsing).

but you keep forgetting that the average musician isn't experienced even in OS X administration, let alone Windows administration, let alone Linux administration. for example, there's no easy backup solution for Linux. you can use a few programs like KBackup or similar, but they don't integrate with your desktop environment and few of them, if any, are as comprehensive as, say, Acronis True Image, and your average Joe Musician will not bother setting up this kludge of cron jobs, scripts and console utilities just to emulate what other OS's offer for a few bucks or even for free (Windows backup is quite nice). those tools are great, but they are *sysadmin* tools, they expect you to know what you're doing. and this is just one aspect of what's wrong with Linux that isn't a problem for me or for you, but *will* be a problem for someone else. unfortunately, there's lots of little things wrong with Linux that on their own are often quite trivial, but they add up to "Linux expects you to know what you're doing".

that, and also your attitude of "if you don't agree, you're a Microsoft shill"

[abique]

Well, I give up arguing

[chk071]

Are MS paying you guys for all this? I hope so!

Wonder why you Linux guys always have to be so aggressive, and dictatorial. What is it with Linux/Open Source that turns people into religious fanatics rather than rational thinking human beings? Well, keep on scoring own goals, dude. It's your decision.

[abique]

Are MS paying you guys for all this? I hope so!

Wonder why you Linux guys always have to be so aggressive, and dictatorial. What is it with Linux/Open Source that turns people into religious fanatics rather than rational thinking human beings? Well, keep on scoring own goals, dude. It's your decision.

Well if you sum all the pollution, I mean completely wrong statements saying stuff like Linux is not good because you have a package manager which doesn't work, installing random .exe found on the web is much better (especially if you like viruses). How can't you get crazy? We're trying to get u-he on Linux and some people come, throw up..., and are surprised of such answer. That's just destroying our efforts. Why?

At some point we got constructive when we talked about money and technical solutions. We can find solutions, provide help to simplify and reduce the development costs of Linux support. That is what matters.

[danboid]

I'd hardly describe that comment as aggressive and dictatorial... so now I'm in the same league as Hitler or Mao? More hyperbole!

I only posted in this forum to get a response from Urs and I was happy with how he responded. There was no need for you to list 100 reasons why you don't think Linux is fit for audio or why you think its too hard for the average user. I know a number of non-techie types who are running desktop Linux without any issue and package managers didn't make their head explode. It's nowhere near as difficult as you've been making out but I'm just going to bow out of this conversation now as this thread has served its purpose which was "Please port U-he software to Linux" not "Is Linux fit for audio production or desktop use".

Thanks to Urs and abique for on-topic responses - I hope to run U-he under Linux one day!