KVR Audio

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:01 am

polaris20 wrote: The original iPad benchmarks faster than a 12" Powerbook, something I also ran Reason 2.5 on, as well as Tracktion 2. The iPad 2 benchmarks twice as fast as that. I think if someone like Propellerhead really wanted to, they could do a Reason for iOS and make it sound and work great.

The power is there, but they'd have to substantially rethink the interface. The big downside of touch screens is that they're not very precise. All the fiddly little buttons and cables in Reason would be very annoying on a touch screen.

I'm coding an iPad synth right now and it's fun but also very challenging to think about how best to represent a parameter-rich interface on a tablet.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:28 am

kuniklo wrote:The power is there, but they'd have to substantially rethink the interface. The big downside of touch screens is that they're not very precise. All the fiddly little buttons and cables in Reason would be very annoying on a touch screen.

Rebirth is indeed a Hazard to use on an iPod touch. It may be better on iPad, but it clearly shows that the UI was not made for iDevices.

The DEVs should really think "outside" their app and ensure:

1) That they take full advantage of the touch screen abilities within the limits of screen size

2) That they take full advantage of pasteboard transfer

3) That they drop the concept of apps as self-contained toys and at least open the possibility of wave mixdown and wi-fi transfer aside from pasteboard transfer.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:47 am

IncarnateX wrote: The DEVs should really think "outside" their app and ensure:
1) That they take full advantage of the touch screen abilities within the limits of screen size
2) That they take full advantage of pasteboard transfer
3) That they drop the concept of apps as self-contained toys and at least open the possibility of wave mixdown and wi-fi transfer aside from pasteboard transfer.

I agree, although I don't think *anybody* has really nailed #1 yet. Every instrument I've seen for iOS so far more or less adheres to the standard synth UI paradigm, with a bunch of virtual knobs and sliders for all the parameters. Something more like Synplant would make a lot more sense, but that also takes a lot more balls and imagination to build.

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:04 pm

Wow .. $39 ..
There will be better and cheaper stands in the near future from third devs.

IncarnateX wrote:The DEVs should really think "outside" their app and ensure:

1) That they take full advantage of the touch screen abilities within the limits of screen size

That's right on one part, but bad on another. Some things just will always work better with a mouse+keyboard than with a touchpad. So why does everybody want to use a touchscreen for those things today?

At the moment we have a real "touch-hype". Some developers (I'm thinking of the game-industry here) using touch-control, where they can, even if usual buttons would be much better. Some NintendoDS-games for example are terribly uncomfortable, because they "have" to use this dumb touch-screen when it really makes no sense.

Of course speaking of exclusive iPad-apps, it only makes sense to forget about the usual concepts and try to really make something, which is easily controlable with the touchpad.
Still ... in my opinion it would be much better to just make more notebooks with touchpads and then develop programs, which use all control-elements in an intelligent way.
I totally do not see tablets as the new thing, which should be the standard for portable computer-devices. Only a touch-screen is just not enough .. having both -touch screen and mouse+keyboard- is much better.

And don't forget about the smartphones. Those are REALLY portable and you always have them in your pocket and they can basically do everything a tablet can.
In the future, everybody will have one anyways .. so why also carry a tablet with you? For serious work? I'd rather take a laptop for that .. the rest can be done with the smartphone.

Triny D · Post by **Triny D** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:06 pm

Deja vu all over again. I remember so many naysayers about audio mixing on the pc, then there were those who said plugins would never work, then those who said MIDI and audio should never be in the same app. Even getting developers to see the possibilities was crazy. Until a few decided to take it seriously and now we have a viable situation on Mac & PC. The folks who continue to use traditional Composition/mixing/mastering tools still enjoy access to them and those who transitioned to computers can do what they do.

However there will be a generation of innovators, both musicians and software developers, on touch screen and I look forward to seeing what amazing things emerge.

I'd like to see Steinberg do what they've historically done and embrace the "impossible".

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:38 pm

kuniklo wrote:Every instrument I've seen for iOS so far more or less adheres to the standard synth UI paradigm, with a bunch of virtual knobs and sliders for all the parameters. Something more like Synplant would make a lot more sense, but that also takes a lot more balls and imagination to build.

I do not mind standard synth UI as long as it works. If you want something different check out Noise.io and the Jasuto Pro. None of them are standard and they work pretty well with the touch screen concept IMO.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:39 pm

Nokenoku wrote:Some things just will always work better with a mouse+keyboard than with a touchpad. So why does everybody want to use a touchscreen for those things today? .

Do not know which things you refer to in particular, but for my part I think touch screen control is pretty cool. At present I could make my music much faster and probably better sounding on a PC but touch screen is just so more fun and inspiring to me. It need not be any more rational than that. As stated earlier there are a lot of sacrifices, so question is whether you are hooked on the concept or not. I bought my iPod touch in January and have not made music on anything else since. I do miss a bigger screen, a little more power and more optimizations of programs, therefore I will buy the iPad 2. With regard to the programs, I believe that the "toy apps" approach is on retreat and that the DEVs show signs of taking the whole deal a bit more serious. There are heavy updates of NanoStudio and Music Studio in sight and I'll bet Intua will keep BeatMaker II competitive too.

Triny D wrote: Deja vu all over again. I remember so many naysayers about audio mixing on the pc, then there were those who said plugins would never work, then those who said MIDI and audio should never be in the same app. Even getting developers to see the possibilities was crazy. Until a few decided to take it seriously and now we have a viable situation on Mac & PC.

The naysayers will be dissapointed as usual when trying to stop the future. Though I do understand those who like to wait and see because of the present hazards that you have to accept as part of the deal. My predection (and hope) is that we will not have to wait too long to see these hazards getting minimized.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:58 pm

IncarnateX wrote: The naysayers will be dissapointed as usual when trying to stop the future.

There's no question touch interfaces are here to stay and are going to become very widespread. But, just as the mouse did not replace the keyboard, I don't think that means that *everything* will become a touch interface.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:55 am

Are there any iOS synths that have a decent touchable interface? I still like Bloom best as it's one ofg the few that works well with a touch based concept. Something like synplant would be cool though but most are too fiddly. I'd love to see a touchable Metasynth

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:09 am

kuniklo wrote: There's no question touch interfaces are here to stay and are going to become very widespread. But, just as the mouse did not replace the keyboard, I don't think that means that *everything* will become a touch interface.

I agree in general, but in my case I have not used a mouse for ages. I use the built in touch pad of my notebook for everything.

aMUSEd wrote:Are there any iOS synths that have a decent touchable interface?

Those in my sig do all have decent (= working without hazards) touchable interfaces IMO, including the Eden Synth from NanoStudio but if you are looking for something especially designed for touch screen I would recommend Noise. io Pro or Jasuto Pro.

Cheers

martygras · Post by **martygras** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:43 pm

It will be interesting to re-read this thread in 2 years.

Get rid of that steering wheel. We'll put in a touch screen.

Gene Roddenberry must be turning in his grave.

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:15 pm

That's what I'm saying.

A Shooter for example is best played with mouse+keyboard, not touchpad or gamepad.
Same goes for certain apps. Some might work great with touch-control .. other things will just always be more convincing to do the "old way".

Only because something is new and exciting, does not mean it's the best for everything.
This has absolutely nothing to do with naysayers or "trying to stop future" and is something entirely different than people, who were not able to see the benefits of software.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:24 pm

Nokenoku wrote:A Shooter for example is best played with mouse+keyboard, not touchpad or gamepad.

Is that supposed to be a universal fact? I think shooters are pretty cool on my iPod and when I am using PC for anything at all, I use it's touch pad, not a mouse. There are no universal facts about mouse or touch screens. All your claims might be true in your own case but false in another's.
It all comes down to training and personal preferences. And that I believe to be a universal and quite trivial fact.

leroik · Post by **leroik** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:59 pm

I haven't really used an iPad before. What I think might work well for fiddly knobs is to have the knob zoom in size when you touch it. Then you get precise control. It'd also look really cool. Or are programmers already doing that?

Could use a keyboard with the iPad but I guess that once you get a tablet taking and attaching a keyboard would just be a pain, right? Mind you, if the keyboard is wireless and works straight away ...that could work ...apart from the carrying it around part.

But I'm amazed how many apps have come out - even more so how many MUSIC apps. It definitely makes ya think ...mmmm, must have iPad.

)..

polaris20 · Post by **polaris20** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:03 pm

leroik wrote:I haven't really used an iPad before. What I think might work well for fiddly knobs is to have the knob zoom in size when you touch it. Then you get precise control. It'd also look really cool. Or are programmers already doing that?

Could use a keyboard with the iPad but I guess that once you get a tablet taking and attaching a keyboard would just be a pain, right? Mind you, if the keyboard is wireless and works straight away ...that could work ...apart from the carrying it around part.

But I'm amazed how many apps have come out - even more so how many MUSIC apps. It definitely makes ya think ...mmmm, must have iPad. )..

The bluetooth keyboard is really easy to pair, and once it is, it's seamless. That being said, I really don't use it all that often, because the virtual keyboard is great, and that allows me to not have to carry the keyboard around.

iPad 2: The end of the laptop era?