Initiative to help the less fortunate obtain legit software and help spread the love. Seriously.

[FarleyCZ]

I LOVE!!! this topic!!!

Finally someone thinks in real borders. Till now it seemed to me like people completely ignored that "legalizing" stage and the oposite, which are crucial to handle somehow.

I can't tell I'm in that bad situation as I have bit of cool payware gear now, but I absolutely agree with that points. Have been there, kinda still am. Especially students. Even those on colleges. It takes just bigger lesson schedulle with some course repeating, bit of nacessary family time and you have no chance to fit side job in there, which makes sustaining warez free environment quite a limiting task.

But yeah, I really support that idea! Especially the "make a song/presets with our stuff and get it for free/with discount". If it's good, it'll raise image of the product and user is helped. Win win. It also cancels question of what is poor. Richer people would rather have the time than the money. Not exactly "economic" thinking, but really good minded one. I'm a fan!

About the free stuff argument: Yes, there is lots of amazing free stuff, but still with majority of (good) payware you can achieve a bit better results. But songs are really like children. They're your idea and you want to treat them as best as you can. And even that emotion of not being able to afford better plugs for them is kind of similar. It just bares you down, becouse yu know you are the looser. :/

[lionscub68]

I see some familiar folks in this string here.

I do think ttoz is on to something.
Dunno if I'd make it a free thing, or a reward system.
Not offering any solutions here at all.
I just think most cases of altruism like this one, and in general, all have great potential. Is always the execution of the idea that proves difficult. Not to mention the setting up of criteria... how to choose the beneficiary (or cut-off line) for this kind of opportunity? (See: Tax Code for United States Income Brackets)

I'd like to do a branching-off of what ttoz is saying here, for us who have a pile of physical software boxes collecting dust on the shelf: what the $%&^ do I do with these installers, boxes, CD-ROMs after I buy into the upgrade?

e.g. I own Reaktor 5.0 boxed. For those not in the know, Reaktor has been at 5.x for over 5 years now. Last update I was aware of was 5.5 last year. The point: I used this particular Reaktor 5.0 boxed for the upgrade purchase of Komplete 5.
Also: I used Spectrasonics Atmosphere boxed for the upgrade purchase price into Omnisphere.

Damn, I would love to either sell (but cannot due to NFR) or donate (but cannot since the new user cannot register and therefore use the software). Plus... chances are this older software won't work on a newer OS. (This points out the shorter lifespan of Software vs Hardware, but that's another topic altogether).

Anyways, my point? I wish I could give the older stuff away to somebody who is just learning or just getting into this obsessive hobby we all have in common (or in some cases, a career for the lucky bastards who manage to earn a living and eat doing music). ALL WHILE not posing any threat to my license. In the end I think it comes down to the devs allowing the physical media to be freely transferable but no-longer-supported. Same applies to non-physical media. Good luck figuring out an altruistic plan where *everybody* is a happy camper. (See: Obama Political Gameplan)

So for now, the older software installers sit on the shelf or closet, collecting more dust.

I'm with ttoz.
I'm also not organized enough or able to see how a great idea like this can happen without some sort of opposition. (See: John Lennon's No-More-War Campaign)

[licasto2]

What you guys are forgetting is it is NOT what people in poor countries can afford or students (sorry, but you get a free education and bitch because you can't get pro software???? Why not just ask Mommy and Daddy since they are paying your 75k tuition also....waaahhhh!!) It's about what the DEVELOPER can afford. Rent in a poor neighborhood starts at about $1000 where I live. That's for a crime infested craphole where not may residents can even speak the native language. A person (usually) needs an expensive education and a place to live to deliver a professional software package. The world is not only about you and what you "want" but what the developer NEEDS........ I know some of those poor student types and they always seem to be able to afford beer, weed, Starbucks and the latest pair of $100 jeans.

[Kriminal]

There is enough quality free stuff to let people make music... it is not like hunger or lack of healthcare...

indeed, and i would much rather give my cash to someone who really needs it

nice sentiment, but im out.

[Big Tick]

The world is not only about you and what you "want" but what the developer NEEDS........

What ? Aren't all developers ferrari-driving millionaires, like John Carmack ?

[lionscub68]

Oh one more thing:
I'm treating this admission as an A.A. Meeting:

I am a recovering warez addict.

I was a bbbaaaadddd boy when I was just getting into the virtual audio production thing. That was back in 2003. Protection was weak back then.
I don't feel necessarily good about myself for what I now realize is "stealing."

I won't justify why I did it or even the possible gray areas of morality (e.g. there was no available demo and I'm not gonna dump $500 on it if I don't know if I'll like it or not... etc etc). We've heard it all before, and in some cases had the same thoughts.

However I did learn to stop doing it, and delete all apps, plugins, sample sets, etc etc that I did not purchase, circa 2005. I can report that I own everything that I use, and everything that's installed on my rig. I am completely legal. I understand how people get to the point of using warez. So in a way I feel like a drug counselor working with addicts...

So now I buy *everything* (hosts/plugs/apps) that I believe I would like. Fooling around with music toys (real or software) is a priority in my life-- for some people it's horses, cars, going to the pub, watching Star Trek, whatever. Watching the KVR feeds for software updates is like reading the Sunday morning sale ads for me. Very seldom is it that I can't make a choice ahead of time of which software I am interested in, and am saving up $$ for. I sold one of the few plugins I did not like to one of the folks here in this string, after going through the painfully time-consuming process of getting a hold of the dev for the permission to do so... then used that $$ to buy another plugin.

Buying apps and plugins are a necessity to get into this stuff.
- You gotta have a DAW. Period. Or just be happy making music with Audacity. Until you can afford one, do your research; save up some coin. It took me a few months to scrape up the money for Logic Pro Studio back in the days when it actually cost a *lot* of money. More recently I bought Ableton Live out f necessity to play nice with others in the sandbox; but first I used the free/lite Live version that came with nearly any piece of Korg hardware I bought. Either way? I own a major DAW.
- You want fancy toys? It comes with a price. Can't afford it? You can't have it. Want a handout? Let's make it legal to hand out our leftovers. Who decides this legality? The Developers.
- Developers gotta eat and pay rent, too. They need to get paid them for their work. How can they profit and get some kind of credit in this hand-me-down organization? Maybe it can be set up as a Not-For-Profit? And provide a tax writeoff for developers?
- If you find that you like a plugin/DAW/other app? Liked the demo, when there was one? Or even if you stole it at one time (such as using a warez version?)... then now it is time to support it. Pay for it. Buy it. *From a legal source.* No one will judge you for doing the right thing.

In the end it is my firm belief for an altruistic idea such as this one comes down to a major developer (N.I., Eric P of Spectrasonics, someone from Waves) to host and promote the idea. And have KVR, Computer Music, Keyboard Magazines make it a public participation event.

There's my contribution in this think tank.

Moral of the story: The only one who can stop stealing is the stealer.
(this applies to drugs, booze, or any other fun-but-moral-bankrupting behavior)

[grymmjack]

I don't get it.
I mean what nitwit is going to be the proud winner for being a warez user?
You mean I had to get Live Lite with my M-Audio keys, and got Logic8 "used" for a hundred bucks, but Thieving Fanny comes along and gets a 500 dollar daw handed to her/him for stealing?

This is part of that slippery slope.

FTR I am not in it to rescue warez kids I'm in for it to give back.

I concur with what you are saying, and I had to take the same road over years to get the few most expensive bits of software; live suite, reason, soundtoys, etc. These were aspiration targets for eventual purchase. The hardware upgrade path was the only way I could do it. But it was worth it.

I don't think we should reward bad people, this is why I raised some of the concerns I did before.

[grymmjack]

An initiative to keep people from using warez in the first place should be the goal.

that actually *is* in reality the main goal, as well as rewarding devs.

I'm out then, if that's the main goal. I didn't realize this was only about piracy. I'm in to give, but not like this.

[grymmjack]

alot of people spend every last cent getting themselves an often shitty pc so they can do music.

i don't agree. I think we are on to something.

And grymmjack, identifying the reason why you think those 5 people are perfect candidates, is a crucial key in this project. Simply because i trust you, so.. even if you pm me privately, if you know *why*, share

I'll PM you.

[grymmjack]

One possible way to reward those who show themselves to be willing to put something in -- a matching arrangement, half and half or some such arrangement.

Obviously I have no say at all in this. The initiative is Theo's, and those actually doing it should make the rules. Just throwing out an idea that might or might not be of use.

This has some potential Meffy.

The problem with gifting out right (especially perhaps not always but somewhat probable) a person who is trying to "clean up their act" and admitting piracy and so on publically or whatever is one has no real way to know how sincere they are, ESPECIALLY on an internet forum where anyone can make many accounts (even though I'm sure you stop a lot of imposters) and we have no idea who they are how honest they are etc.

A perfect example also of this is someone like Scott Kane who was doing a good thing giving GUI work away but using a pirated version of Adobe software, admitting it in public and having an attitude like he had the right to do this because he couldn't afford it. He was a talented guy (not perfectly aligned with my tastes but a good example) and I would most definitely NOT want a person like this to receive these gifts.

[grymmjack]

Hell yeah! I'd be up for donating to such a fund if we could refine the idea a bit and iron out the flaws.

As long as we're not encouraging piracy and rewarding pirates, I'm in to give as well.

If it's only about helping someone go straight, I'm out. There indeed is way more than enough really good free stuff to get started and save against a goal.

[grymmjack]

I'd be willing to help out. I cannot do it for everyone, but for those truly in need and want to make music, I can offer some of my products in this arrangement.

As far as DAWs, if they can scrounge up $16 USD, they can buy a copy of Computer Music magazine - which has a pretty amazing music making set of plugins, sequencers, etc - all for the price of the magazine. If you simply do not buy 4 packs of cigarettes or not drink a few cups of coffee, you can afford this magazine.

I do feel that this should be for those non-offenders who have not turned to warez and now wants a free hand-out. The moral obligation needs to be a reward, although there simply is no way to prove or police this - it truly is on the honor system.

I like the idea of 'pay it forward'. For example, I donate synths or samplesets and in return, I receive some cool presets to add to my products - everyone wins.

Mike

I like the idea of donating a copy of CM mag! This is a good idea Mike. Some people can't afford/obtain the mag, and I think this kind of person would GREATLY appreciate such a gift.

It's in line with giving spirit, it's not too costly to build in abuse, and it's definitely worth supporting CM IMO. CM get's a lot of fire here, but it's a good magazine even if the reviews are a bit too positive/generous sometimes. IMO this idea has a lot of merit. It also contributes back because the CM studio plug-ins are by devs we love here too. Some CM versions upgraded to fulls, like fxpansion does, for example.

I'd gladly pitch into a fund doing this kind of thing.

[davidka]

nvm

[gambaytheunspoken]

Good idea, but i have reservations about the approach. The persons or companies harmed by software theft should be front and center of the initiative, not third parties that really have no standing in the matter. I understand the noble impulse to help but sometimes that impulse does more harm than good. Big companies like Yamaha already have programs in place when it comes to donating instruments to school music programs, and it has nothing do with stopping theft but fostering musical education. I think this is the approach that needs to be followed. Education, knowledge, not theft ought to be the guiding parameters. The internet is truly revolutionary when it comes to spreading education across the globe. Besides, who wants to be viewed as a thief who comes in from the cold? Everybody, no matter what age, wants to learn, to advance beyond their current skill sets and knowledge. Get those developers whose creations are being illegally downloaded to pony up in whatever way that they can and choose, be it financial or otherwise. Imagine teaching someone the rudiments of coding a plugin or instrument instead of just taking it because it's just there to be taken. Small developers and big companies have a real interest in seeing this kind of initiative succeed. Why? Never mind the abiding moral sentiment of uplifting your fellow human being, there is financial reward in all of this.

Ciao!

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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