Prophet VS sounds with Zebra?

[Ingonator]

Just converting the VS single cycle waveforms i got from my Wavestation EX to Zebra format (using the Wav To Zebra tool). Those will be around 6 h2p files with up to 16 waves each. Will also try to check with the Zebra demo.

Could i post them here when i'm finished?

Had a look at the U-He library now. Are the "Waves Of Plenty" waveforms in the U-He library from a real VS or a Wavestation?

I mean those, close to the end of the page:
http://www.u-he.com/PatchLib/zebra.html

In that case i would not have to post them again. Anyway as i got the WAV files now i could could them in many synths.


Ingo

[Ingonator]

Just converting the VS single cycle waveforms i got from my Wavestation EX to Zebra format (using the Wav To Zebra tool). Those will be around 6 h2p files with up to 16 waves each. Will also try to check with the Zebra demo.

Could i post them here when i'm finished?

Had a look at the U-He library now. Are the "Waves Of Plenty" waveforms in the U-He library from a real VS or a Wavestation?

I mean those, close to the end of the page:
http://www.u-he.com/PatchLib/zebra.html

In that case i would not have to post them again. Anyway as i got the WAV files now i could could them in many synths.

Just checked the "Waves Of Plenty" waveforms from the U-He library and my converted ones from the Wavestation EX in the Zebra 2.6 demo version. They seem to look quite similar but still different. I guess those were done from a real VS.

Anyway for those who want to use them here are the converted Wavestation VS waveforms (6 files with up to 16 waveforms each):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 0waves.zip

Those were sampled with bypassing the filter.


UPDATE:
To create a vector mixer in Zebra does not seem to be easy. It works with 2 oscillators within one axis but not with 4 in two dimensions. With 4 oscillators it only works properly i the center position.
Not possible to get a single of the 4 oscillators using the XY pad like in the VS or Wavestation (when the vector stick is in one of the 4 corners).

The Synthmaster vector oscillator got a 1D mode to do the same while the 2D mode works like in the VS or Wavestation.

In fact a vector mixer module is a bit more complex than just assigning volumes to a XY pad.

There seemed to be an older thread about that in the past:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=233532
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=195946


Ingo

[hollo]

In my opinion Vector Synthesis is a bit boring when concepts like Zebra's OscFX offer dynamic changes in timbre with a single oscillator.

Nevertheless, what remains somewhat exclusive to 80ies digital synthesizers is their often gritty sound, and that's not just aliasing. We might figure this out for our stuff. Some day.

Thanks for sharing the Wavetation VS set Ingo!

suthnear thanks also for the nice work on wavesofplenty!

Cheers,

[Ingonator]

In my opinion Vector Synthesis is a bit boring when concepts like Zebra's OscFX offer dynamic changes in timbre with a single oscillator.

Nevertheless, what remains somewhat exclusive to 80ies digital synthesizers is their often gritty sound, and that's not just aliasing. We might figure this out for our stuff. Some day.

Thanks for sharing the Wavetation VS set Ingo!

suthnear thanks also for the nice work on wavesofplenty!

Cheers,

In terms of waveforms we should have indeed enough now...

Replicating a VS in Zebra still seems to be a problem as i have checked with the Zebra demo version.

Even if it would be possible to solve the problem with creating a proper vector mixer (real two dimensional mixer and not two one dimesnional ones...) the next problem would be to program a vector movement.
In the Wavestation this could be done using the graphical display and the vector stick. You select which point you want to edit and do it with the vector stick (with graphical representation of the stick position on the display).

This "Mix envelope" (= a two dimensional envelope) could be also further modulated with e.g. a LFO.

To show what i talk about here is a screenshot of a Synthmaster patch i just worked on (using the Wavestation EX single cycle waveforms):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... hes_01.png

On the left is the vector oscillator module in 2D mode (corresponds to the VS and WS) and a 2D envelope on the right (up to 32 steps possible).
also trying to use the multistage envelopes instead of ADSR, like in the VS.

Here is a screenshot of a test patch in the Zebra 2.6 demo:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... hes_01.png

Mixing Osc 1 + 3 (with X-axis) and Osc 2 + 4 (with Y-axis) works and also having the XY pad 1 at central position works (all 4 with same volume) but is is not possible to selct only a single waveform with the XY pad like in e.g. the VS.

Like mentioned in the old thread (see my earlier post, link there does not work) maybe using mixer modules could help. Currently got a little trouble finding how to use those properly.


Ingo

[pdxindy]

To create a vector mixer in Zebra does not seem to be easy. It works with 2 oscillators within one axis but not with 4 in two dimensions. With 4 oscillators it only works properly i the center position.
Not possible to get a single of the 4 oscillators using the XY pad like in the VS or Wavestation (when the vector stick is in one of the 4 corners).

Yeah, I tried it also... You could do it if you could disable the sidechain in the mix module. I was able to do 3 corners by sending the sidechain of the 3 mixers to channel 4

Osc1 * Osc2 * Osc3
Mix1 * Mix2 * Mix3

But the 4th channel is used to give Mix1, Mix2 and Mix3 a single input so there is no place for Osc4 and Mix4

[pocvecem]

I always wished that the cursors of the four xy-pads in Zebra could be assigned to some modulation sources.
Of course a 2D-envelope would just be perfect.
In the meantime i often use Cableguys MidiShaper for that purpose.

[Howard]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

[pdxindy]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

Nice!!

[hollo]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

Thanks Howard! - Now it's looks so simple

For a kind of programmed vector movement we can use the 4 MSEGs instead of the vector stick.
(I love to see the the transparent overview of the 4 MSEGs.)

[Ingonator]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

Yes, that's it !!, Each corner of the XY pad corresponds to a single oscillator now and mixing is possible too.

I had a comparable idea but was too stupid to get it working.

Thank you very much for this, Howard.


Now we got different sets of VS waveforms and a vector mixer. Now we have to find a proper way to program a vector movement.

If we could modulate the XY1 position directly 2 MSEGs would be enough.
Using 4 MSEGs could be possible but a bit tricky. In fact with using 4 MSEGs (1 for each OSC) you would not even need a vector mixer...

In the Wavestation you could modulate the X- and/or y-axis of the programmed vector movement further using e.g. a LFO.

A 2D envelope like in Synthmaster would be quite useful in Zebra, not only for doing vector modulations.
Having the XY pads as modulation destination would be useful too. For doing modulation of the vector position it would be even necessary.


Ingo

[xh3rv]

[e] nevermind, thought I had 4 lanes -> corners worked out, but actually was a lot of fail

[Ingonator]

[e] nevermind, thought I had 4 lanes -> corners worked out, but actually was a lot of fail

Do you mean the vector mixer that Howard published or did you try to add vector movement with the MSEGs?


Ingo

[xh3rv]

[e] nevermind, thought I had 4 lanes -> corners worked out, but actually was a lot of fail

Do you mean the vector mixer that Howard published or did you try to add vector movement with the MSEGs?


Ingo

My thinking was, consider it either-or, but one could have a patch where the lanes could pretty simply be controlled by MSEGs (like a 1/3 axis and a 2/4 axis) so long as the XY was centered. Somehow 4 lanes, 4 sources lines up nicely IMO (although Howard's patch could do the same thing with MSEGs on ModMatrix). Been trying to make that work, pretty sure it's possible, but maybe later

[Kriminal]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

Yes, that's it !!, Each corner of the XY pad corresponds to a single oscillator now and mixing is possible too.

isnt that exactly what the Cameleon CA5000 did ?

[Ingonator]

Here's one way to do it (not an interesting sound, just a proof-of-concept)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w23266knluh5scm

Use X/Y pad 1

Yes, that's it !!, Each corner of the XY pad corresponds to a single oscillator now and mixing is possible too.

isnt that exactly what the Cameleon CA5000 did ?

In fact it's what the Prophet VS and the Wavestation did (long time before softsynths were used) and yes Cameleon 5000 could do such stuff too (+ NI FM8 and others)...

The problem is that with Zebra implementing this was not trivial. Simply assigning OSCs to the XY pad does not do it properly.

Personally i got lots of choices for vector synthesis (e.g. Wavesattion EX, Wavestation plugin, Arturia Prophet V, Augur, Synthmaster 2.6, FM8, Cameleon 5000) but testing this in Zebra was an interesting task (i only got the Zebra demo version at the moment).
As Howard seems to be the biggest Zebra "guru" alive it was not surpriseing that he found how to do a vector mixer.


Ingo