anyone else bummed they didn't get picked to Beta test BitwigStudio?

[VitaminD]

Didnt apply, so, no. Its a big job testing a Host properly. Much bigger than a synth. Dont have the time (or the inclination...i only test stuff that im interested in) so wouldnt be much use.

Always amazes me the amount of ppl who join beta teams full of promises and cant deliver....

So, when I agree to beta something, I'm not agreeing to take on a part time job. I'm agreeing to use it in the way that I'm using my existing software and I'm agreeing to try out the new features as I would normally. If I encounter problems I'm agreeing to report the bugs and/or not complain if you capture logs from my usage.

If you want me to test YOUR software like I test MY software, then you MUST offer to pay me what my time is worth. In my opinion, beta testers are getting something of very limited value so to expect much from them is simply unrealistic. As a dev you should be gathering logs and you should be doing analysis of those logs to see what kind of coverage across different hardware/software configurations that you're getting as well as using them to help validate/refute known bug reports.

In short, I think that me offering to use your "buggy" software for a few weeks for nothing more than the privilege of using your "buggy" software for a few weeks is a great deal for you!

Was Bitwig not offering a free/discounted copy to beta testers who participated fully? (not a snarky implication, but an honest question )

I don't know, you tell me? Their web site says "we're beta testing, sign up to our newsletter if you want to test."

I've been on a few beta test teams before and that was usually the case - but you did need to fully participate (utilize the software quite fully, document and report bugs, assist in verification, etc.)

I've almost never seen this to be the case with "open betas", which, to me, make the most sense. For my efforts, which have been minimal, I've received no compensation of any sort for beta testing. To be clear, I'm perfectly ok with that. I view the beta test as an open minded extended demo. That is, I'm seeing if I want to switch/upgrade and I'm willing to help you with any issues that I find. The thing is, I do this anyway even if I'm not beta-testing. I have almost always found that the bugs that I know about have already been reported, but, I go out of my way to report bugs in products that I like. If you're asking for detailed reporting that doesn't really sound like "beta" testing to me, that sounds like you're still working out the bugs in your alpha.

Otherwise, yeah. Pay me to be part of the Q/A team.

Sure, I agree that if you are getting a free license worth several hundred dollars or more then your obligation is more than what should be expected in an open beta. By open here, I really mean semi-open. That is, anyone can participate, but you still have to wait until you're asked to help to download. So, in other words, like what Bitwig is doing.

Except it is not, it is a closed beta.

Just because they fill their pool with an open application doesn't mean the actual beta is open.

It is no different than having a company and listing jobs on Monster.com

You fill the positions through an open request. It doesn't mean they hire just anyone who fills a job application.

[ghettosynth]

Except it is not, it is a closed beta.

Makes no difference, my entire point holds whether the beta is open or closed. I coined there style of testing as "semi-open", meaning that there's not pre-qualifying questions to see if you're suitable. More below. You may not agree with my classification, but that has no impact on my point.

Just because they fill their pool with an open application doesn't mean the actual beta is open.

It is no different than having a company and listing jobs on Monster.com

Do you have a point? My point is simple, if you aren't compensating the tester, whether your beta is open or closed, then your expectations should be low.

You fill the positions through an open request. It doesn't mean they hire just anyone who fills a job application.

Yes, I get the trivial analogy. FWIW, I'm not exactly a neophyte when it comes to software or defects. Given that they asked very little when you subscribed to the newsletter it's clear that they have no legitimate way to filter candidates on application. So, unlike job applications, there's no way to select "viable" candidates. I suppose there's a low cost to ask them to come back and qualify, but that seems a bit inefficient to me as you're assuming that you'll get plenty of candidates in the first place, then you cut off at N, then you hope that they're what you're looking for.

In that sense, it is open, which is why I referred to it as "semi-open." AFAIK, NI does a lot of "open" testing where you can just download the software as long as you're a customer. Other companies filter on a limited survey of CPU/OS type. By your understanding this is also closed, but I coined this semi-open in that there's no qualifying of the tester's credentials. If you're really qualifying candidates on their ability to report a bug and participate as an integral part of your development process, then you will have some form of qualifying interview, and, well, you should be paying them. Well, I won't bother with that crap unless you're paying me.

It's often presented as a "privilege" or an indicator of "status" to be on the "beta team" (eye roll goes here) by people who've tested, it's not.

[ghettosynth]

...I don't know, you tell me? Their web site says "we're beta testing, sign up to our newsletter if you want to test."

I signed up but received no invitation, so unless it was limited by number, I assume it was not truly open. Wasn't sure what they were offering the invitees. My assumption being that Bitwig selected from the interested parties and possibly offered compensation for full participation, but I'm only assuming since I didn't get past signing up. Maybe that's part of the non-disclosure.

I don't know either. I signed up too but it was after it hit KVR and I think that they had all that they wanted. I still think that it's a poorly managed marketing blunder on their part. Their "newsletter" hasn't exactly been exciting, to say the least.

If you're asking for detailed reporting that doesn't really sound like "beta" testing to me, that sounds like you're still working out the bugs in your alpha.

I disagree with you here, since even finished products can benefit from detailed reporting of bugs, of the type a vendor might not receive from support.

Sure, I get this, and I'm perhaps overstating my point. I could guess that the "beta" tests revealed serious flaws which is why they haven't released a product yet. To me though, that would indicate a poor Q/A process in the first place. So what I perhaps should have said is that BitWig's "beta" test feels to me more like an "alpha."

[VitaminD]

Except it is not, it is a closed beta.

Makes no difference, my entire point holds whether the beta is open or closed. I coined there style of testing as "semi-open", meaning that there's not pre-qualifying questions to see if you're suitable. More below. You may not agree with my classification, but that has no impact on my point.

Just because they fill their pool with an open application doesn't mean the actual beta is open.

It is no different than having a company and listing jobs on Monster.com

Do you have a point? My point is simple, if you aren't compensating the tester, whether your beta is open or closed, then your expectations should be low.

You fill the positions through an open request. It doesn't mean they hire just anyone who fills a job application.

Yes, I get the trivial analogy. FWIW, I'm not exactly a neophyte when it comes to software or defects. Given that they asked very little when you subscribed to the newsletter it's clear that they have no legitimate way to filter candidates. So, unlike job applications, there's no way to select "viable" candidates.

In that sense, it is open, which is why I referred to it as "semi-open." AFAIK, NI does a lot of "open" testing where you can just download the software as long as you're a customer. Other companies filter on a limited survey of CPU/OS type. By your understanding this is also closed, but I coined this semi-open in that there's no qualifying of the tester's credentials. If you're really qualifying candidates on their ability to report a bug and participate as an integral part of your development process, then you will have some form of qualifying interview, and, well, you should be paying them. Well, I won't bother with that crap unless you're paying me.

It's often presented as a "privilege" or an indicator of "status" to be on the "beta team" (eye roll goes here) by people who've tested, it's not.

You're arguing just to argue! If you want to call it 'semi-open' then it could equally be called 'semi-closed.' But in any event that matters not. What does matter, however, is it appears your argument is filled with assumptions on how Bitwig operates based on how other software teams have operated in your experiences.

And it also seems your entire argument is based around the premise of Bitwig not providing anything for their testers. Are they or are they not? If you weren't contacted then how do you know whether they had a further round of questions or any sort of planned compensation for potential testers.. unless you know those specifically who were contacted. Do you?

You seem argumentative in this thread based merely on conjecture.

[JoeCat]

[I don't know either. I signed up too but it was after it hit KVR and I think that they had all that they wanted. I still think that it's a poorly managed marketing blunder on their part. Their "newsletter" hasn't exactly been exciting, to say the least.

Come to think of it, last "newsletter" I got from bitwig was an e-mail almost a year (!) ago announcing beta-testing had begun. And if it's a year later and no release - yeah, that was alpha-testing.

[hibidy]

You seem argumentative in this thread based merely on conjecture.

One thing I do wish is that they'd release the damn thing so ya'awl can find something else to argue over

[hibidy]

[I don't know either. I signed up too but it was after it hit KVR and I think that they had all that they wanted. I still think that it's a poorly managed marketing blunder on their part. Their "newsletter" hasn't exactly been exciting, to say the least.

Come to think of it, last "newsletter" I got from bitwig was an e-mail almost a year (!) ago announcing beta-testing had begun. And if it's a year later and no release - yeah, that was alpha-testing.

That was only a year ago? Seems longer to me

[ghettosynth]

You're arguing just to argue! If you want to call it 'semi-open' then it could equally be called 'semi-closed.'

Call it what you like, my point was that it doesn't matter.

But in any event that matters not.

We agree.

And it also seems your entire argument is based around the premise of Bitwig not providing anything for their testers.

No, you're reading what isn't there. My response was to Kriminal's comment, and was not initially about bitwig.

Always amazes me the amount of ppl who join beta teams full of promises and cant deliver....

This strikes me as a comment loaded with unreasonable expectations.

Are they or are they not? If you weren't contacted then how do you know whether they had a further round of questions or any sort of planned compensation for potential testers.. unless you know those specifically who were contacted. Do you?

I don't, but I am being critical of their marketing and their Q/A process. I think that they've blown their "excitement" wad with early adopters because of a flawed beta test that comes across to me like an alpha. They're still advertising the beta for christ's sake and as JoeCat pointed out, they've had no newsletter.

So my perception of bitwig is that they might be talented developers who had some good ideas but they've bungled the release. I also think that Live 9 has stolen some of their thunder. Oh, and whoever said it, yes, I agree that the name is not exactly compelling.

[ghettosynth]

[I don't know either. I signed up too but it was after it hit KVR and I think that they had all that they wanted. I still think that it's a poorly managed marketing blunder on their part. Their "newsletter" hasn't exactly been exciting, to say the least.

Come to think of it, last "newsletter" I got from bitwig was an e-mail almost a year (!) ago announcing beta-testing had begun. And if it's a year later and no release - yeah, that was alpha-testing.

That was only a year ago? Seems longer to me

It was announced about a year ago and the last video posted was about five months ago.




I think that they're learning that old software adage the hard way.

"Getting an initial release to the halfway point in a software product is disheartening because you think that it should take about half of the planned time, but it doesn't, it takes 90 percent of the time to get to that point. Finishing the product up and getting it out to customers only takes the other 90 percent."

[hibidy]

EDIT

Nope, he was serious

[VitaminD]

You're arguing just to argue! If you want to call it 'semi-open' then it could equally be called 'semi-closed.'

Call it what you like, my point was that it doesn't matter.

But in any event that matters not.

We agree.

And it also seems your entire argument is based around the premise of Bitwig not providing anything for their testers.

No, you're reading what isn't there. My response was to Kriminal's comment, and was not initially about bitwig.

I know your response was as a result of Kriminal's statements. You came out with both fists swinging.

I actually agree with Kriminal. I think you do too!

Let me show you your point -->

In short, I think that me offering to use your "buggy" software for a few weeks for nothing more than the privilege of using your "buggy" software for a few weeks is a great deal for you!

So it seems your point was the deal was one sided yet we don't know if it is or is not. Perhaps all beta testers get a lifetime membership to the Bitwig FanClub and free tickets to Bitwigland.. we don't know and perhaps even the bitwig testers don't know.

Always amazes me the amount of ppl who join beta teams full of promises and cant deliver....

This strikes me as a comment loaded with unreasonable expectations.

Are they or are they not? If you weren't contacted then how do you know whether they had a further round of questions or any sort of planned compensation for potential testers.. unless you know those specifically who were contacted. Do you?

I don't, but I am being critical of their marketing and their Q/A process. I think that they've blown their "excitement" wad with early adopters because of a flawed beta test that comes across to me like an alpha. They're still advertising the beta and as JoeCat pointed out, they've had no newsletter.

So my perception of bitwig is that they might be talented developers who had some good ideas but they've bungled the release. I also think that Live 9 has stolen some of their thunder. Oh, and whoever said it, yes, I agree that the name is not exactly compelling.

I actually agree with that. But that is a safe and obvious thing on which to agree. That is, you make an obvious claim there since (most) everyone already knows this; That is the reason for the bitwig threads of obnoxious cat photos on kvr! And we have told them so directly.

Always amazes me the amount of ppl who join beta teams full of promises and cant deliver....

This strikes me as a comment loaded with unreasonable expectations.

Perhaps. However, I never stated that. Yet you've removed the owner of said quote (Kriminal) and sandwiched this quote and your resulting remark in between several of mine without linking any of them to their owners. Thus, it (incorrectly) looks like my statement.

[musikmachine]

You seem argumentative in this thread based merely on conjecture.

One thing I do wish is that they'd release the damn thing so ya'awl can find something else to argue over

Are you kidding?! Kvr has never been so calm.

I was bummed for a few days when i realised it wasn't me but i got over it!

[ghettosynth]

So it seems your point was the deal was one sided yet we don't know if it is or is not. Perhaps all beta testers get a lifetime membership to the Bitwig FanClub and free tickets to Bitwigland.. we don't know and perhaps even the bitwig testers don't know.

Not "the" deal, but "most" beta testing. I was again, not talking specifically about bitwig. In fact, I wasn't really talking about them at all.

Always amazes me the amount of ppl who join beta teams full of promises and cant deliver....

This strikes me as a comment loaded with unreasonable expectations.

Perhaps. However, I never stated that. Yet you've removed the owner of said quote (Kriminal) and sandwiched this quote and your resulting remark in between several of mine without linking any of them to their owners. Thus, it (incorrectly) looks like my statement.

No, I didn't "remove" the owner, I simply copied the text. FYI: This isn't important enough to edit.

[hibidy]

OH FFS!!!!!!!!

I can't say what I want to say but I can say..........well, I can't say.

I can say that I can't find ONE SINGLE THING that ghetto said that is wrong.

Oh well, kvr, it is what it is.

[fedexnman]

Whats a Bitwig ?