Let's build a mega-Synth

[sl23]

Thank you to both of you Great job

[Taifunk]

How come this patch has separate oscillator to detune, doesn't one oscillator have several layers?

The patch detunes slightly gentler than the built-in unison option

that's what I thought, I feel like the built in unison needs a way to tweak the detune curve. I agree the built in detune is very harsh. If mutools adds a way to make the detune More gentle I will upgrade asap(I love supersaws but never used mux cuz it was so harsh, it detunes too quickly imo)

Many things also depend on how you shape the sound,I made an example but with the layer function,include also a different filter with bass boOst
check the attached patch and let me know how it sounds in your opinion

[Pyrotek45]

How come this patch has separate oscillator to detune, doesn't one oscillator have several layers?

The patch detunes slightly gentler than the built-in unison option

that's what I thought, I feel like the built in unison needs a way to tweak the detune curve. I agree the built in detune is very harsh. If mutools adds a way to make the detune More gentle I will upgrade asap(I love supersaws but never used mux cuz it was so harsh, it detunes too quickly imo)

Many things also depend on how you shape the sound,I made an example but with the layer function,include also a different filter with bass boOst
check the attached patch and let me know how it sounds in your opinion

doesn't sound too bad(could use some white noise)

[urvieh]

very nice done, guys! will look at your patches if i am at home

@jo: it is true what pyrotek45 says.
an exponential detuning would be a nice addition.
but not necessary for me anymore. as you can see i have built my own detuning-option with your great software

[MuTools]

The problem with your layers is that when you turn the fat-ness up, any detune amount past five sounds bad imho, we want finer control for smaller detune(because too much detune doesn't sound musical) the jp8000 was the first supersaw synth, and its unison detune was very special to it. The detune curve was NOT linear (it detuned very slightly until the last 10%) imo being able to sweep between the sweet spot(in your case for layers ,1-5 detune) is what makes a good detune/supersaw. Basically, your max detune should be closer to whatever you have it set to, 10 not whatever you have it set to 50 (whatever you have the detune at 10, that should be considered 100% detune imho) its kind of hard to explain what I mean tbh.

Ah so you're talking about the "Quick Edit" method, right?
Do you know you can edit each super layer in full detail via "Deep Edit" ?

[Pyrotek45]

The problem with your layers is that when you turn the fat-ness up, any detune amount past five sounds bad imho, we want finer control for smaller detune(because too much detune doesn't sound musical) the jp8000 was the first supersaw synth, and its unison detune was very special to it. The detune curve was NOT linear (it detuned very slightly until the last 10%) imo being able to sweep between the sweet spot(in your case for layers ,1-5 detune) is what makes a good detune/supersaw. Basically, your max detune should be closer to whatever you have it set to, 10 not whatever you have it set to 50 (whatever you have the detune at 10, that should be considered 100% detune imho) its kind of hard to explain what I mean tbh.

Ah so you're talking about the "Quick Edit" method, right?
Do you know you can edit each super layer in full detail via "Deep Edit" ?

Yes but That also defeats the purpose of a master detune knob. Aka I don't want to edit each layer to crate a supersaws Everytime I want a supersaw

[MuTools]

Please describe in tech detail how you see the ideal detune 'curve' for the Quick Edit mode.

[Pyrotek45]

Please describe in tech detail how you see the ideal detune 'curve' for the Quick Edit mode.

Well I am at work ATM but please read the "how to emulate a supersaw" paper by Adam szabo where he breaks down the detune curve and settings very clearly and with graphs. This imho is best curve for supersaws (and any other types of a sounds/waveforms) as it is the original.you can find the paper on the jp8000 wiki here at the bottom of the page in PDF form.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_JP-8000

I do understand that the jp8k had only seven saws and yours has many more, but I'm sure you can come up with a clever way to work that into it. What's fantastic about this curve is that it allows you great control(and is very musical) while not being limiting.

[Taifunk]

How come this patch has separate oscillator to detune, doesn't one oscillator have several layers?

The patch detunes slightly gentler than the built-in unison option

that's what I thought, I feel like the built in unison needs a way to tweak the detune curve. I agree the built in detune is very harsh. If mutools adds a way to make the detune More gentle I will upgrade asap(I love supersaws but never used mux cuz it was so harsh, it detunes too quickly imo)

Many things also depend on how you shape the sound,I made an example but with the layer function,include also a different filter with bass boOst
check the attached patch and let me know how it sounds in your opinion

doesn't sound too bad(could use some white noise)

Surely,It's a matter of personal taste ,you can add what you want, another oscillator, a noise generator,cross modulation,a chorus..etc.and then design the sound as you want.
These things depend on the sound that you want to get,the urvieh's patch is clearly inspired by Sylenth to achieve the same unison sound,there is much work behind for this reason,he is the right guy to do this,the patch also has a big wow factor ,It show how powerful mux really is ,well done urvieh

I'm more focused on old machines, even different musical style,the example I posted is a simple patch based on the JP-4c reaktor patch,with the layering detune function I get the same results(obviously slightly different settings) but without going into advanced settings, except for the phase settings.(Note that in the urvieh 's patch the oscillators are free runnig but they are all in phase)
Obviously reaktor sounds different, but also sylenth,diva and also the jp08 ..8000 etc..IMO,but that's another story.

I have to check,but if I remember correctly also the Jp-4c is based on that paper by Adam Szabo.

A comparison between 1>Mux and 2>JP-4c

UNI JP.jpg

the patch, there is nothing more than just an oscillator with its layer settings.
(fatness 3 =7 oscillator)

JP.zip

There are other reasons to have all those layers,If you do not like to have more layers just stop at 3 and forget the other.

[Pyrotek45]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a lot of layers, I think the mux oscillator is awesome. However the master detune is in need of tweaking imo. I will make a video showing and comparing it to other detune knobs from other synths I think the max detune is set too high. And that's why it gets harsh easily.

[Taifunk]

Surely,you're explaining what's wrong, I made that comparison just to show that there is no need to have all those oscillators in every single patch,in this case there is a reason,but really a headache to work with all those oscillators
Do not get me wrong:) (always a friendly tone in my posts)

[Pyrotek45]

Surely,you're explaining what's wrong, I made that comparison just to show that there is no need to have all those oscillators in every single patch,in this case there is a reason,but really a headache to work with all those oscillators
Do not get me wrong:) (always a friendly tone in my posts)

Ah yes, i completely agree with you.

[urvieh]

These things depend on the sound that you want to get,the urvieh's patch is clearly inspired by Sylenth to achieve the same unison sound,there is much work behind for this reason,he is the right guy to do this,the patch also has a big wow factor ,It show how powerful mux really is ,well done urvieh

thank you taifunk. I am happy to be part of the community. Without you I would not have come so far.
can you please tell me what analyzer did you use in the pictire above?

[Taifunk]

You're welcome urvieh,we help each other,we have a great community here,I am also happy to be part of it
forgive me if I I'm going a bit off topic

can you please tell me what analyzer did you use in the pictire above?

of course , is the dust analyzer by signal dust,you can find it here:
viewtopic.php?t=380389

[MuTools]

Well I am at work ATM but please read the "how to emulate a supersaw" paper by Adam szabo where he breaks down the detune curve and settings very clearly and with graphs. This imho is best curve for supersaws (and any other types of a sounds/waveforms) as it is the original.you can find the paper on the jp8000 wiki here at the bottom of the page in PDF form.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_JP-8000

I do understand that the jp8k had only seven saws and yours has many more, but I'm sure you can come up with a clever way to work that into it. What's fantastic about this curve is that it allows you great control(and is very musical) while not being limiting.

Thx. Interesting papers. I've added a note on the wishlist about this non-linear detune curve aspect.