KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:42 pm

"Better than it seems". Why should it seem worse when you use it? And why would it go better after more use?

Rastkovic · Post by **Rastkovic** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:56 pm

chk071 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:42 pm "Better than it seems". Why should it seem worse when you use it? And why would it go better after more use?

I think the GUI suggests it's a MS20 emulation, then you may be disappointed if you work it. But, if you leave the emulation thing aside, you find a usable synth.

That is what "it is better than it seems" means to me.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:05 pm

Ok. Well, even if I don't view it as not an emulation (and why would I do that? It IS an emulation.), it's a pretty average soft synth. "Dated" is the right description in my opinion.

I'm not even a big fan of the MS-20 (pretty dirty synth), but, what I heard from it is so much juicier, and fatter than the plugin. No offense meant, I think the original KLC MS-20 is from the mid 2000's or something.

Rastkovic · Post by **Rastkovic** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:24 pm

I don't think there is such a big difference between the good softsynths of the 2000s and the digital softsynths nowadays, in terms of basic sounds. If you add compression, eqing and maybe a bit saturation, you will barely hear a difference in a multilayered track.

Btw: On other parts of the KvR forum, the people rave about Oddity2 an ImpOSCar2. From my memory, the basic sound of the plugins ist still the same as in the original plugins....

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:28 pm

Rastkovic wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:24 pm I don't think there is such a big difference between the good softsynths of the 2000s and the digital softsynths nowadays, in terms of basic sounds. If you add compression, eqing and maybe a bit saturation, you will barely hear a difference in a multilayered track.

There are huge differences, in my opinion. Especially in the filter modelling. And, in general, in the fidelity of the sound.

Don't mean to disagree for the disagreeing's sake, it's just that I think soft synths made quite a leap in the last, like, 10 to 15 years.

Rastkovic · Post by **Rastkovic** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:38 pm

Yes, of course you are right. I don't disagree, I also love the further developments.

But in the end, a sawtooth with a square subosc sounds always punchy as hell. With a softsynth from 2021, but also with a softsynth from 2006. Maybe the synth from 2006 needs just a bit more processing.

electro · Post by **electro** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:13 am

TAL-U-No-LX, U-he DIVA, and Native Instruments Monark were the 3 gamechangers. Gforce Oddity (2002) was a more faithful ARP Odyssey emulation than the Creamware Prodyssey and the OSCar has digital oscillators.

Rastkovic wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:24 pm I don't think there is such a big difference between the good softsynths of the 2000s and the digital softsynths nowadays, in terms of basic sounds. If you add compression, eqing and maybe a bit saturation, you will barely hear a difference in a multilayered track.

Btw: On other parts of the KvR forum, the people rave about Oddity2 an ImpOSCar2. From my memory, the basic sound of the plugins ist still the same as in the original plugins....

Rastkovic · Post by **Rastkovic** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:11 am

electro wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:13 am TAL-U-No-LX, U-he DIVA, and Native Instruments Monark were the 3 gamechangers. Gforce Oddity (2002) was a more faithful ARP Odyssey emulation than the Creamware Prodyssey and the OSCar has digital oscillators.

There was no gamechanger, there is just the next step. A gamechanger was maybe Rebirth-338, or Reaktor (Generator). I remember creating sounds in the nineties with offline rendering softsynths.

A very big step in terms of sound was by the way DCAM Synth Squad by FXpansion. Released in 2009.

Introspective · Post by **Introspective** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:48 pm

ZDF was "the gamechanger." Lots of synths implemented it. But I agree with the comment that "there was no gamechanger" synth (ZDF is an algorithm.) ...at least not in general. There are, of course, synths that change the game for us as individual producers. There have been many for me! ...but I've been at this for a very, very long time. :S Impulse Tracker, from ModTracker; Buzz Tracker from there ... Triangle / Square / Pentagon ... Imposcar, Absynth ... Omnisphere, DCAM ... Diva ... The Legend, Obsession; Model 72 and 84... Pigements, in terms of UI ... and I'm probably missing a ton, here.

I've certainly played at least a dozen "games" since I started, it has changed entirely since then.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:54 pm

electro wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:13 am TAL-U-No-LX, U-he DIVA, and Native Instruments Monark were the 3 gamechangers.

Monark is still the only synth where I actually have the impression that there's electricity running through its circuits.

Introspective · Post by **Introspective** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:57 pm

I dunno, man. I A/B'ed Monark against Model 72 and it was night and day in favor of Softube's emulation. ...at least to my ears. :S That was the day I bought Model 72. I haven't looked back.

And I had been really impressed with Monark. Great emulation! (I still use it inside of Maschine, FWIW.)

But Model 72 sounds much more ... "like electricity" to me.

EDIT: I do have to give points to Monark for being the only synth where I asked myself "did I just hear the oscillators warming up?!"

...there's something that happens when you're changing patches that causes the pitch to smear, and I love that, even if it's an illusion.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:02 pm

Introspective wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:57 pm I dunno, man. I A/B'ed Monark against Model 72 and it was night and day in favor of Softube's emulation. ...at least to my ears. :S That was the day I bought Model 72. I haven't looked back.

Model 72 sounded a bit artifical, and exaggerated to me. I only demo'd it briefly though. Decided Monark sounded better to my ears.

Softube is very good in general though. They have some kick ass FX as well.

Introspective · Post by **Introspective** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:07 pm

chk071 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:02 pm Model 72 sounded a bit artifical, and exaggerated to me. I only demo'd it briefly though. Decided Monark sounded better to my ears.

That's fair. We can only trust our own ears, eh?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:17 pm

Yep.

I'm definitely interested in more Softube emulations though. And, I haven't given Model 84 a try so far either. Although the Juno's are not really my kind of synths.

ChiTown24 · Post by **ChiTown24** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:20 pm

a DSI Poly-Evolver emulation would be great. A Roland SH-2 emulation would be great. What could be really successful for them is an Ensoniq Mirage emulation and an E-mu Emax I emulation. Vintage sampler emulations, while they exist, aren't nearly as plentiful as synth emulations nor am I convinced by their sound (as someone who owns the actual hardware). I think there's a lot of scope there for the high end emulation/modelling experts - the vintage samplers worth emulating have analogue VCA's and VCF's anyway, so existing expertise should translate easily there and from the get-go would put a Softube vintage sampler emulation at an advantage compared to competitor emulations from developers with no real expertise in analogue modelling. I guess the real challenge for Softube, or anyone else, is authentically (within reason) emulating the sampling processes, i.e over driving the input while sampling, pitch shifting, time stretching, downsampling, resampling, etc etc.

anyway, I'd love for someone to put out a really convincing vintage sampler emulation so that I could bring myself to even consider selling mine.

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