Apple to recent purchasers of Logic 6: f**k off

[Zoing]

I don't care how fancy apple's shit is. If their PC's n' Apps lock me in to only using "their PC's n' Apps" then I say lose their Yuppy, Guppy platform.

Besides, Steve Jobs is a Bush Supporter.

- juanito

Along with some valid concerns I believe this thread is full of ignorant arguments.

Regarding the above comment, I believe you have to have Windows compatible software to run on Windows. How is this any different from Mac?. There may be less overall software but that's beside the point. Only a small percentage of Mac software is made by Apple. Choose what you like. You like DP or Logic, its Apple; Sonar or whatever, use a PC. You want viruses, get a PC

Re that supporting Bush lie you casually tossed in, this from Wired - "Jobs, who heads up Apple and Pixar, an animation studio, is a long-time supporter of the Democratic party." (There was a petition as a lot of people wanted him to run for president). Also in another Wired article it says that John Kerry has Steve jobs as an informal advisor.

Microsoft got to be the dominant player largely by copying innovators like Apple (playing music, watching video etc), and engaging in anticompetitive practices:
www.antitrustinstitute.org/recent2/304.pdf

It also takes open standards and tries to make exclusive versions of them, like it attempted with Java. Some others are listed here: (skip the first bit about IBM and head for 'Microsoft: destroyer of standards')
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/GeekT ... soft.shtml
This is a few years old so I don't know if they are better or worse now.

Apple were the only company capable of bringing the music labels together and allowing legal music downloads with reasonable usage rights, which you'd think a forum of muso's would support. (Apple apparently get only about 4c per song). now everyones doing it (or trying to), including M$, who admitted they copied Apple's music store design.

As far as I'm concerned there is only one group of PC users that have a valid complaint against Apple, and thats Logic users, and I'm sure they have every right to be pissed off. Apple needed an audio company, and they weren't going to dilute their development efforts by having 2 platforms to work on. Its understandable business-wise but a kick in the guts to PC Logic users.

And when it comes to the Logic 7 upgrades, yes I agree they should be more flexible. The peope hurt make the complaints, fair enough, but for everyone in that position, there is probably someone like me. I have Logic Gold 6, only extra I bought was ES1. I can upgrade to Logic pro 7 with everything included for $299. Which is pretty bloody amazing. Not fair on loyal upgraders, I know, but life isn't. We can all afford computers and software (to varying degrees) -- we could have been born in Sudan!!!

Apple aren't perfect, and I'm sure Steve Jobs is a scary guy to be on the wrong side of, but in my opinion it no way stacks up against Microsoft's record.

Right, thats my 2c worth, I'll close with a quote from that Geek Talk article (which is not written by a Mac person by the way)
"Microsoft's behaviour is a textbook example of anti-competitive business practices, and if it weren't for their armies of lawyers, the antitrust suit would have been an open-and-shut case. They are evil. Absolute evil."

PS I have absolutely nothing against PC users at all, this unremiting Apple bashing just got to me.

[munchkin]

As a PC user Zoing I agree with you 100% that M$ are the biggest pirates on the planet. You makes some good points about M$. Gates has absolutely no soul and could be the reincarnation of that kid in the Omen.

But...my criticism of Apple is based on their customer unfriendly upgrade policy in this case. And my criticism of some of the posts here is aimed directly at the attitude of 'put up or shut up' that seems to emanate from people who have taken to wearing the fanboy t-shirt.

I'm not including you in this category but I think it is evident in this thread from some quarters. It annoys me when I read it in other threads (often defenders of PC software crimes against humanity) and I think it should be challenged.

[meister eder]

Besides, Steve Jobs is a Bush Supporter.

This is just plain wrong! Steve Jobs first supported Howard Dean financially, and now he is an official consulter for John F. Kerry. Do a Google search and you'll find out.

[egbert]

But...my criticism of Apple is based on their customer unfriendly upgrade policy in this case. And my criticism of some of the posts here is aimed directly at the attitude of 'put up or shut up' that seems to emanate from people who have taken to wearing the fanboy t-shirt.

I am remembering all the posts here and in the LUG about how great it was going to be for Apple to own Logic.

So now we have:
1) very little communication about forthcoming product timetables,

2) development priorities skewed (I'm talking about PDC vs DAP) even worse than when Emagic crippled 3rd party control surface support in Logic 5 to pressure people to buy the LC.

It is actually a bad thing for a software company to be in the hardware business.

3) an end of Emagic's customer friendly policies of tiered upgrades and grace periods - so that there was recognition of prior investment in Emagic product and policies to manage new version releases.

How many Cupertino fanboys are seeing the light now? Not many I bet - we all know they like a bit of rough treatment.

Hmm - perhaps they're from the parish of St Alphonso ...

I saw a handsome parish lady
Make her entrance like a queen
Why she was totally chenille
And her old man was a Marine
As she abused a sausage pattie
And said why don't you treat me mean?
(Hurt me, hurt me, hurt me, oooooh!)

Frank Zappa - Apostrophe

[macha]

logic user from day 1. in all these years I must have spend a fortune on updatin'.
The last 10 months apple charged me a. 598 euro for the space designer which they sold seperately in the first 3 months. then it suddenly was "free in the pro6 update.....2 months ago i updated tp pro6 from plat 6.....225 euro....
this means a rip off in 10 months of 825 euro....almost the price of pro 7....
now another 329 euro ......totally rediculous.
seriously considering nuendo now.....i am starting to dislike apples monopoly.......they are loosin the magic aura.....it s the arrogance of power.

[meister eder]

....2 months ago i updated tp pro6 from plat 6.....225 euro....

I'd say that's your own fault. There was no serious reason to update from platinum6 to pro6, especially since Ultrabeat and Sculpture were announced allready. Every half logical thinking being was able to foresee that the next update would cost again.

What did you get for your 225? ES2? Evoc? Whichever plugin it was that made you update was well worth the 225. As are Ultrabeat and Sculpture the price of the 7 update. You don't need them? Don't update.

Oh, BTW, C-Lab Notator / Emagic Logic user from day 1 here, too

[munchkin]

How can it be macha's fault for paying for an uppgrade if Apple are the ones offering this upgrade two month prior to a second paid for upgrade? Talk about sending out mixed messages! It seems to me that it would be so much simpler if Logic had paid for version upgrades and any updates in between came free of charge. All the other hosts seem to do it this way.

Another thing, Sonars upgrade cost $149 which includes new instruments and a whole lot more. Cubase upgrades are a similar price. And check out the latest DP upgrade. Logic users seem to be paying through the nose and some of them are thanking Apple for this.

[macha]

emagic used to create price differences. an upgrading from logic 2 to logic 5 for instance was cheaper then ...say ...upgrading from 3 to 5.
i ve been in this before when i upgraded my pro tools tdm system all the time.
i was a prisoner of digidesign.....now i see apple starting to behave similarly.
i would say we should be more critical towards apples marketing strategies.

[Joxer the Mighty]

This is just plain wrong! Steve Jobs first supported Howard Dean financially, and now he is an official consulter for John F. Kerry. Do a Google search and you'll find out.

And unless I'm mistaken, Jobs had Al Gore speak via satellite at the unveiling of the G5.

This has all gotten very silly. If you don't like Apple's 'big bad evil corporation' tactics, then don't buy their sh*t. It's as simple as that. No amount of whining is as powerful as speaking with your wallet.

[egbert]

This has all gotten very silly. If you don't like Apple's 'big bad evil corporation' tactics, then don't buy their sh*t. It's as simple as that. No amount of whining is as powerful as speaking with your wallet.

It's called negotiation Dude. In recognition of the investment of both parties in the relationship the offended party attempts to negotiate a better deal. And don't tell me you have never done this with your boss or your teacher or your girlfriend or the booking agent at a restaurant or whatever.

Go over to Cubase.net and look on the forums for the thread on SX3 prices in Australia. Australian SX users protested the A$399 Dollar price that was put on the SX3 upgrade in Aus and successfully negotiated a reduction to A$299 through negotiation and dialogue with the Aus distributor MusicLink and Mark Porter the Steinberg rep for UK/Northern Europe and Australia/NZ.

Australian users didn't just trash their investment in Steinberg products and sulk or buy Sonar they protested and negotiated and got the desired result - something closer to price parity with the rest of the world.

Eg

[jones-y]

When anyone asks me what I think about Apple and their Macs I usually respond with, "f**k-a-Mac"!

I don't care how fancy apple's shit is. If their PC's n' Apps lock me in to only using "their PC's n' Apps" then I say lose their Yuppy, Guppy platform.

So I assume that windows PCs and apps don't lock you into using Windows PCs and apps...

[ericj23]

When anyone asks me what I think about Apple and their Macs I usually respond with, "f**k-a-Mac"!

I don't care how fancy apple's shit is. If their PC's n' Apps lock me in to only using "their PC's n' Apps" then I say lose their Yuppy, Guppy platform.

So I assume that windows PCs and apps don't lock you into using Windows PCs and apps...

eh no .... windows (ie microsoft) doesnt try to force you to buy their audio program, movie editor, photo editor, acid clone etc - and lets face microsoft dont have to coerrce too many of us to use oriffice - even mac users get that for compatibilty sakes

[munchkin]

This has all gotten very silly. If you don't like Apple's 'big bad evil corporation' tactics, then don't buy their sh*t. It's as simple as that. No amount of whining is as powerful as speaking with your wallet.

It's called negotiation Dude. In recognition of the investment of both parties in the relationship the offended party attempts to negotiate a better deal. And don't tell me you have never done this with your boss or your teacher or your girlfriend or the booking agent at a restaurant or whatever.

Go over to Cubase.net and look on the forums for the thread on SX3 prices in Australia. Australian SX users protested the A$399 Dollar price that was put on the SX3 upgrade in Aus and successfully negotiated a reduction to A$299 through negotiation and dialogue with the Aus distributor MusicLink and Mark Porter the Steinberg rep for UK/Northern Europe and Australia/NZ.

Australian users didn't just trash their investment in Steinberg products and sulk or buy Sonar they protested and negotiated and got the desired result - something closer to price parity with the rest of the world.

Eg

Yes! This is the nub of the issue but perhaps some people just give up and accept whatever's thrown at them.

[shamann]

Have you seen it? It is made by Canadians - go boost your economy to the tune of $10:-)

I haven't seen it, but I've read Joel Bakan's research before. I'm sure it's worth supporting, and contrary to the misreadings here of my previous posts, I mostly agree with his assessments.

I'm not going to argue, eg, since your post made me laugh (as in funny, not derisively).

To the original poster, since you won't likely get a deal from Apple on the upgrade right now, and I assume the store where you bought it won't take it back, maybe as a consolation you could use Logic 6 since you already bought it, register it, and hope that Apple might offer a better upgrade deal in a few months when sales slacken.

It's a crappy deal all the same, but maybe there's always hope?

[meister eder]

How can it be macha's fault for paying for an uppgrade if Apple are the ones offering this upgrade two month prior to a second paid for upgrade? Talk about sending out mixed messages! It seems to me that it would be so much simpler if Logic had paid for version upgrades and any updates in between came free of charge. All the other hosts seem to do it this way.

Of course it was his fault. Nobody forced him to buy an update that he didn't need. If he did need it however, he can't complain to have paid for it. Wake up, start thinking.

I also paid for Platinum 4.8 to 5.0 and 5.0 to 6.0 in one go. Then Pro6 came out. ES2 and Evoc were tempting, but I switched on my brain: I knew that Ultrabeat and Sculpture were announced, so there would be another update soon. As they had changed their update system with Pro6 to what it is now, it was only logical for me to wait for 7. No mixed messages from Apple there. Hence, if I had bought Pro6 it would have been my free decission to waste money on something that I didn't really need. And so it was for Macha. It's not that he didn't get anything for his money.

Oh, and just for the record - I am not so rich that I wouldn't have to care about update prices. However, I am out of this discussion - it's just too ridiculous.