They did the right thing, now show support!

[machinesworking]

pdxindy, I’m not arguing with you anymore.
I think you totally understand what was meant and are choosing to be argumentative.

I think it might be the other way around. For instance you seem to be a bit ESL or at least did not get what I meant here.

Holy crap that’s some dense logic.

That's why people need to realize this.

I meant the logic was stupid and ill concieved, not intricate and well thought out.

[FakeNatty]

I meant the logic was stupid and ill concieved, not intricate and well thought out.

sorry that it was too hard for you to conceive that you thought it was stupid

[simmo75]

pdxindy, I’m not arguing with you anymore.
I think you totally understand what was meant and are choosing to be argumentative.

I think it might be the other way around. For instance you seem to be a bit ESL or at least did not get what I meant here.

Holy crap that’s some dense logic.

That's why people need to realize this.

I meant the logic was stupid and ill concieved, not intricate and well thought out.

I wasn’t even talking to you mate. I think you quoted me by mistake.

[PieBerger]

I'm about halfway through an active upgrade plan and I still decided to purchase another 12mo plan following the u-turn. I don't see it as praise, like you would praise a child for doing their homework or whatever, more of a reminder to them, that as a business I expect certain actions/behaviour if they want continued financial support from me.

Yes it's still a kind of reward, but that's all that business transactions are in the end. Businesses make creative (in this market) and commercial decisions and then we as consumers react to those decisions by deciding to open our wallets or not. We punish those decisions which we don't agree with (and they needn't be as drastic as the Spectral Suite debacle) by withholding money and we 'reward' them whenever they make decisions that we deem worthy, by giving them money.

I don't think it's that strange or controversial to show (financial) support for good decisions, even though they were preceded by bad ones. Good and bad decisions are being made all of the time and praise/reward/however you want to call it, of good decisions is likely to result in more good decisions to be made in the future, so why shouldn't they be rewarded?

Bitwig can't turn back time, all they can do is acknowledge and accept a bad decision and try to make good on it, which they did and that's more that can be said about a lot of companies, both inside and out of this market. I have a vested interest in the long term future of the company; I like the product they make and don't want to use anything else, if I can help it and I can help it, by supporting them financially, provided they continue making more good decisions than bad ones. I don't see the value in holding a grudge against them and wanting them to fail, for a single mistake.

[mxbf]

my upgrade plan expired last December and I don't feel any strong desire to pay to keep it going, though I am still using Bitwig as my main daw. its 170 dollars and my Bitwig functions as is. it looks like all I'd get are a few extra plugins here and there, which I don't need, though I think it's cool they exist. I still do want more work on the boring aspects of Bitwig, like making the UI more customizable. i know nobody probably wants to work on overhauling that aspect of the program, and nobody seems to really think it's much of a problem so it will probably not happen, and even i wouldnt know what to say about improving it.

when i heard the news they fixed the problem I did go to check if I wanted to buy the upgrade though, so its not like i don't want to support them or whatever. but i'm not just going to spend that much money to "support" a company when i don't actually need or want the things I get in exchange. I didn't see anything in the support plan that warranted the exchange of money. maybe i'm missing it, i just don't need a Chorus plugin or spectral plugins that i have already in other forms, mostly.

[j wazza]

...

(Bitwig is on the more expensive side

Users do not know in advance what the add ons are.

The definition of add ons is arbitrary)

Sure if you don't like it being that expensive that's fair enough, I don't either. But thats very different from bitwig doing something wrong which is what I'm talking about. Completely fair if you don't like bitwigs add ons for other reasons but I mostly had a problem with it morally because of the deception

I think that introducing add ons on its own is not wrong even with a yearly plan, and regardless of how much they choose to sell it for, they can set whatever price they want and people can buy it or not buy it. But its wrong to deceive customers which happened as the yearly plan was meant to include everything, but it didnt.

We never know what upgrades we'll get in the next year, it's not just add ons that we don't know. If bitwig said a year earlier that they would do paid add ons, then its people's choice to get the upgrade plan and accept the arbitrary definition of add ons if they want to. As long as bitwig communicated that, it would be fine.

In terms of my interests, I don't mind paying for add ons if it means more cool shit gets developed in bitwig, id still prefer it to be cheaper, but I mostly care about the deception and slyly changing the user agreement

They've fixed the mess now though so no problem anymore

I don't think we need to buy an upgrade plan because of this, that could encourage stuff like this, but I think credit where its due for fixing it

[machinesworking]

I still do want more work on the boring aspects of Bitwig, like making the UI more customizable. i know nobody probably wants to work on overhauling that aspect of the program, and nobody seems to really think it's much of a problem so it will probably not happen, and even i wouldnt know what to say about improving it.

I feel the same way about Bitwigs interface as I do Logic, that I would want things changed but looking at them compared to the other DAWs on my system Reaper, DP, Live, and Reason, they're a lot more balanced. Their GUIs are flatly much easier to navigate and read than the others, less UX issues.

Reason and DP have legacy issues in terms of areas where the fonts or other graphic items are too small, even with their resizable GUI's etc. Reaper and DP have skins, but the skins I like at some point conflict with a feature. So some graphic element is unusable or hard to see with the skin. Live is tint-able like Bitwig and that's IMO a reasonable compromise. Logic doesn't allow you to change anything, I hate the look of it, but it's very practical, it's well thought out, would be great if it was tint-able. One thing though, I really wish Bitwig allowed you to adjust the brightness of the white fonts, I adjust the tint of Bitwig to black, and I like the look, it's a little eye fatiguing with the pure white fonts though.

[pdxindy]

Logic doesn't allow you to change anything

Aren't there 3rd party themes for Logic?

[machinesworking]

Yes it's still a kind of reward, but that's all that business transactions are in the end.

I agree with your outcome, I think all the naysayers here are getting caught up on this part here though. IMO business transactions are not "rewards", its labor cost or societies perceived labor cost, manifested as money or product.

Companies are not made up of one individual no matter what US courts believe. CEO's change, employees come and go. What matters is the product, do you like the product? that's it. I like the product I want Bitwig to do well. We did what was necessary to effect change, it worked. We do not need to "teach them a lesson or reward them", that's not how business works, companies are not people period. Companies do not do well when they lose money.

[machinesworking]

Logic doesn't allow you to change anything

Aren't there 3rd party themes for Logic?

Ugh have you seen them? They break with updates from what I've read.

Seriously they're pretty bad, they should call them Reaper skins for Logic.

[pdxindy]

I don't think we need to buy an upgrade plan because of this

There is no 'we'... do what you want and others will do what they want.

[j wazza]

people can buy it or not buy it...

Its people's choice to get the upgrade plan...

I don't think we need to buy an upgrade plan because of this

There is no 'we'... do what you want and others will do what they want.

Again, I said this already so were not disagreeing. In this very post i said that it's everyone's own choice. But we can still use the word 'we'.

I just wanted to know if for others bitwigs communication was the only issue, it is for me.

Thanks for letting me know that the issue for you is cost and bitwigs communication was not the issue or main issue for you

[mxbf]

I still do want more work on the boring aspects of Bitwig, like making the UI more customizable. i know nobody probably wants to work on overhauling that aspect of the program, and nobody seems to really think it's much of a problem so it will probably not happen, and even i wouldnt know what to say about improving it.

I feel the same way about Bitwigs interface as I do Logic, that I would want things changed but looking at them compared to the other DAWs on my system Reaper, DP, Live, and Reason, they're a lot more balanced. Their GUIs are flatly much easier to navigate and read than the others, less UX issues.

honestly just letting color themes be fully customizable like Cubase would be a gigantic step. being able to color Cubase to look how I like it with weird colors makes it fun to use. and wouldnt break anything. honestly kind of dislike that orange that bitwig uses.

[PieBerger]

fun to use.

No fun, only orange with the occasional drama

[pdxindy]

fun to use.

No fun, only orange with the occasional drama

It's like that in the yard...