Some NI Libraries now updated to require Kontakt 7.6?

[SLiC]

......
The NI Updater says 'products that are not compatible with your software are not shown here'...?
The Noire update was shown.
Noire is a stand alone product which I paid for, I don't want to use K7 files...I want to just continue using the software I have bought.
Now I cant use it unless I download K7, not sure how this is user error...

I agree with you re: Noire.
rsp

Thanks- I think its all the updates (play Library as well) so hopefully they will stop this roll out until is fixed, until then we can only warn people. Maybe its just a hard sell for K7 (I notice a 'BUY K7' button now appears hard coded in my K6, very IK Multimedia!)

[mabian]

They could just release K7 as free update to K6 owners. Problem solved (well, not anyway actually...)

[SLiC]

They could just release K7 as free update to K6 owners. Problem solved (well, not anyway actually...)

Yeh, we didn't get much in K6 anyway...same for GR6 owners, 7 should be free!!

[zvenx]

I do agree that indeed NA should create a new version (like a 2.1) so Kontakt 6 users will still have access to the versions that work wiht Kontakt 6, however I don't think you will have issues with older projects in DAWS, the DAW should store the data from when it was last saved.

There is actually an easy way to test it.

if you have a simple older project that uses an older version of a kontakt preset, please do the following:
Let us say you have a project called Early saturday Morning.
Duplicate it and call the duplicate Early saturday Morning Test.

temporarily move the kontakt preset out of the folder it is in and put it on your desktop (or rename it with a _old) suffix

Open the Early Saturday Morning Test Project and see if it opens the project find evne though the preset you used no longer exsits on your hard drive.


If what I am saying is right, the project should play fine even though the kontakt preset doesn't even exist anymore (as you have renamed it)

That should give you some confidence

(of course at the end, remove the _old from your preset name)

rsp

[zvenx]

They could just release K7 as free update to K6 owners. Problem solved (well, not anyway actually...)

lol
indeed
rsp

[zvenx]

They could just release K7 as free update to K6 owners. Problem solved (well, not anyway actually...)

Yeh, we didn't get much in K6 anyway...same for GR6 owners, 7 should be free!!

Don't start me on GR7.. ED can confirm my behind the scenes view on its pricing.
rsp

[mabian]

@zvenx, what makes you think that the data saved in the project should save the situation itself?

The problem for me is the nki, which is outside the project and it's updated and when that nki is loaded it will complain about being hosted in a Kontakt version no longer supported... this is just speculation of course, needs proper testing and verification.

[zvenx]

@zvenx, what makes you think that the data saved in the project should save the situation itself?

The problem for me is the nki, which is outside the project and it's updated and when that nki is loaded it will complain about being hosted in a Kontakt version no longer supported... this is just speculation of course, needs proper testing and verification.

Yes but I am talking about older projects, where the DAW has already saved that.

To be clear.
1) I agree if NA updates with the same names, and you dont' have Kontakt 7 (and don't want to use or install the player) you are screwed in trying to use those updated patches/presets in new instances (whether in older projects or newer projects).

2) But for older projects, it won't be an issue, only for new instances.

Hopefully that is a lot clearer than I was before..
Did it make sense?


I also want to apologize for being gruff before...I didn't realise NA was replacing the older patches with the identical names and now making them K 7.6 only.. Indeed very bad form.



rsp

[mabian]

I think the main problem *is* with older projects that were using K6 and K6 is still installed, with or without K7 installed.

K6 will be loaded in REAPER 99% and will try to load the new nki that will show the incompatibility message and just leave it there. Again, this is a theory but I am pretty sure REAPER wasn't able to transform K5 into K6 in similar scenarios...

- Mario

[zvenx]

Try the experiment I suggested above... that would answer you one way or other for sure.
(clearly without even using Reaper, I think I am right)


Think of it this way.
Let us say you and I are collaborating on a project (and God forbid I installed reaper to do so )
and I do the Bass and pads first in Diva using a sound bank from Diva that you don't have or even say a two sounds I create.
I then send the project to you to open.
Does your reaper say wait a minute you dont' have these patches OR will it just use the saved data of these patches in the project and operate fine for you?

(assuming of course you have Diva)

What the DAW doesn't save for Kontakt is the sample itself, but it would save, the samples name and location. (note I said sample not patch or preset)


rsp

[mabian]

@zvenx, we are not thinking the same... I think that the nki is a subplugin loaded in Kontakt. I know the data in the project is the same but when the nki (which is not only data, it's a script and it's not stored in the project) is loaded in K6, K6 will complain because it will detect it cannot run that nki...

Cannot do now the test, but your example with Diva is not the same... Diva data is in the project and it's simply the plugin parameter values. With Kontakt the parameter values are used by the nki. And the new nki cannot run in K6...

- Mario

[zvenx]

@mabian

I did the test for you..
(you have to right click into a different tab to play drop box stuff on kvr for whatever reason)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h6b3qzm0 ... oth9t&dl=0

Like I said, I have to do variations of this often in my own projects and in testing.

Works in Cubendo would be shocked if other DAWS didn't work the same..


rsp

[mabian]

@zvenx, thanks for the check.

it seems that the whole nki is stored as project data, that would indeed save the day, and I agree that in this case any daw should work the same.

I didn't figure that the nki is indeed something loaded and entirely cached in the project data, and not linked.
So, in theory, if I load a project with a Kontakt nki that I don't have on my system, but I have the samples used by it and I can point Kontakt on their location on load, that would work anyway as well, right?

- Mario

[mabian]

Let me add, this would fix the issue with old projects. It remains the bad taste of an updated nki that can be only used on K7 - and K7 Player - regardless the user has got the original nki and used it with K6 so far...

- Mario

[zvenx]

@zvenx, thanks for the check.

it seems that the whole nki is stored as project data, that would indeed save the day, and I agree that in this case any daw should work the same.

I didn't figure that the nki is indeed something loaded and entirely cached in the project data, and not linked.
So, in theory, if I load a project with a Kontakt nki that I don't have on my system, but I have the samples used by it and I can point Kontakt on their location on load, that would work anyway as well, right?

- Mario

Yep.. I know I am just a nameless person on the internet.. But I do this often enough... I sometimes have to open projects as far back as 2002 in my own professional work and Beta Testing 101 unless it is a new virtual instrument/effects or host, you are suppose to make sure your old projects still work fine.

The scenario you describe is a bit trickier though, because Kontakt will ask you where the samples are, so you will have extra steps, but it should work.
rsp