KVR Audio

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 3:52 pm

Hello,

I just found that Noire and some Play Series Libraries have been updated and, according to the change log, they now require Kontakt 7.6.

So, let me understand well... let's say I have some old projects with those libraries loaded in K6.

Then, If I load these projects after updating the libraries they won't open any longer in the original K6 instances hosting them in the project? I truly hope they haven't done this for real... that would be a huge shoot in the foot.
It seems the update is to support NKS2 and the new mk3 keyboards. But if they actually break Kontakt compatibility they should definitely have new library versions which live side by side with the "legacy" ones... It seems they still have the same major version as before instead.

I can't believe it....

*START EDIT*

this is not as bad as it seemed initially, even though still not very nice:

- older projects with K6 using these updated libraries will load even after the update because the DAW project data contains the original nkis.

- if after the update you try to load the libraries for new projects inside K6 this won't work at all.

In other words, the updated libraries can now be used in newly opened instances of Kontakt only when the Kontakt version used to load them (full or player) is >= 7.6.

I hope this clarifies all.

*END EDIT*

- Mario

martiu · Post by **martiu** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:31 pm

go to sad state of NI there you can get help

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:39 pm

martiu wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:31 pm go to sad state of NI there you can get help

Maybe I can get a bit of relief, not sure I can get any help?

Thanks,
Mario

electro · Post by **electro** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:55 pm

Can Kontakt 3 still be activated? I believe they used DRM to revoke the activation of Kontakt 2 and Kontakt 4. Its always best to build libraries from scratch in the lowest version possible. Once you save in any version of Kontakt you can never open in a lower version.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:00 pm

I think komplete kontrol always uses the latest version of kontakt, so maybe best to always use kkntakt libraries there?

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:01 pm

Usually it is the DAW that stores the parameters as used in the Project.

By example, suppose I use a preset Steel Pan which was created in Kontakt 4 in a project and I save that project (in my case in Cubendo)...
Ffwd a few years and I batch saved the Steel Pan preset in Kontakt 7....
What happens is if I open the old project, it should open the parameters it used in Steel Pan as it was the few years ago and play fine, it does not go back to my files on my hard drive and reload Steel Pan from those Kontakt Files.
What I can't do is to open a new instance of Kontakt 4 and try to use that same preset Steel Pan which has long since been resaved in Kontakt 7 format.

Hope that makes sense.
rsp

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:05 pm

Ok, but I'm not sure you're getting the point.

If you have K6 in a project, the DAW will always try to open K6 when you reload the project, there's no Kontakt version migration for plugins already instantiated in a project. And, when K6 tries to load a library which is no longer compatible with it (and the recent updates aren't) .... booom...

- Mario

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:06 pm

That's the thing, it does not try to load the library from the preset file currently on your hard drive, it loads the library from its saved data in the project.

It works the same way if you batch resave presets in a later version of Kontakt then open a project that used an earlier version of Kontakt.

At least Cubendo works that way, and I do that very often.

Btw in Cubendo, Kontakt 7 will go as far back as to replace Kontakt 3.5 (I have tried up to Kontakt 4, but I have been told it does Kontakt 3.5) if those versions are no longer on your hard drive.
rsp

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:09 pm

zvenx wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:06 pm That's the thing, it does not try to load the library from the preset file currently on your hard drive, it loads the library from its saved data in the project.
At least Cubendo works that way.
rsp

The NKI is not in the DAW project, only the library settings are... and it's the NKIs being updated to no longer work in Kontakt earlier than 7.6...

- Mario

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:13 pm

Yes but the DAW Project doesn't go to fetch the current version of the nki's, it uses the data from the nki as it existed when you saved the project.

Let us say I have an nki, which I will call nki (2019) cause that is what it looked like in 2019. I use it in a project the project saves all the parameters from nki 2019..
Years later, NI replace the nki with what I will now call nki (2023).
New projects will of course use nki 2023, but that older project from 2019, will just use the parameters it saved within the project itself from nki (2019).
rsp

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:14 pm

zvenx wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:13 pm Yes but the DAW Project doesn't go to fetch the current version of the nki's, it uses the data from the nki as it existed when you saved the project.

Let us say I have an nki, which I will call nki (2019) cause that is what it looked like in 2019. I use it in a project the project saves all the parameters from nki 2019..
Years later, NI replace the nki with what I will now call nki (2023).
New projects will of course use nki 2023, but that older project from 2019, will just use the parameters it saved within the project itself from nki (2019).
rsp

I hope you're right...

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:15 pm

MAybe we are talking about two different things.. I thought your concern was being able to open up new older projects.
Is it your concern that you dont' have Kontakt 7.6, and nkis that you bought that worked in Kontakt 6 will no longer open freshly in Kontakt 7.6?
If indeed that is your concern, indeed that will happen I imagine, so you shouldn't update those libraries until you have Kontakt 7.6.
rsp

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:15 pm

mabian wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:09 pm
zvenx wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:06 pm That's the thing, it does not try to load the library from the preset file currently on your hard drive, it loads the library from its saved data in the project.
At least Cubendo works that way.
rsp
The NKI is not in the DAW project, only the library settings are... and it's the NKIs being updated to no longer work in Kontakt earlier than 7.6...

- Mario

Exactly…

I had this problem with some spitfire libraries, where spitfire had provided updates to their product (NKI).

So while my host loaded the older version of Kontakt, the UI was completely messed up.

Thankfully it was just the UI and nothing else, but it does matter for going back to older projects and it can cause problems.

What saved me when this happened (and I don’t do this consistently) is that I used to keep notes in the host about a specific patch used, so I could replace it with a new version if needed. Even knowing it saved me before, I’m less likely to do that now for purely lazy reasons.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:16 pm

mabian wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:14 pm
zvenx wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:13 pm Yes but the DAW Project doesn't go to fetch the current version of the nki's, it uses the data from the nki as it existed when you saved the project.

Let us say I have an nki, which I will call nki (2019) cause that is what it looked like in 2019. I use it in a project the project saves all the parameters from nki 2019..
Years later, NI replace the nki with what I will now call nki (2023).
New projects will of course use nki 2023, but that older project from 2019, will just use the parameters it saved within the project itself from nki (2019).
rsp
I hope you're right...

I do it at least once a month as my work requires often to open older projects or older versions of projects....and even more often when I am testing NI stuff.
But I only use Cubendo, but I think all DAWS work that way.

rsp

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:16 pm

Confirmed, just had to updates from NI and now they don't work in K6...I don't have K7 so now I cant load my libraries?

Some NI Libraries now updated to require Kontakt 7.6?