love at first sight .... energyXT's sequencer!

[jens]

Starcraft,

believe me, I know eXT pretty well
(but anyway a nice try to explain me its basics )

Please let's not continue this (useless) chat here -
visit eXT's forum here on kvr and if you want to join the discussion about eXT's audio-editing you're very welcome...

Once again:

You're completely and continously misinterpreting me... (sigh)

[Caleb]

Well, that doesn't seem all slow, but there's more to midi editing than that. Take for instance programming intricate drum fills. But you're right, I do need to do a bit more research before I start enumerating what's missing. However, it's sometimes difficult to find out what's there with all the documentation so scattered...

Agreed regarding the documentation.

However, like jens said - have a look at composer. I think you'll find some neat tricks for programming drum fills.

You can compose based on a pattern and the notes are automatically created when you hit apply. You can select notes and have them sliced automatically into x even notes. You can use fade to steadily increase or decrease velocity. You can use random notes, you can randomise controller values. Quite alot really. It should be quite useful for drum fills I would think.

Caleb

[Caleb]

believe me, I know eXT pretty well
(but anyway a nice try to explain me its basics )

Yeah - kinda funny really.

[morning]

it was not love at first sight for me, cus maybe like others i was "fool" by how it looks when we double click the .exe file, ..but now i can tell its love for the rest of time ...

[visa tapani]

Well, I just studied the midi editing in eXT a bit more, and took mental note of some of its weak points. So here's a list of some of the things in which eXt midi editing imo pales in comparison to SX:


- Limited quantization features. Sure it's possible to do triplets and Tuplets and whatnot with the slice notes feature, but it's not as smooth as with Cubase.
- No swing quantization possible?
- Editing the controller lane data is clumsy. Data cannot be drawn in. In SX you can even draw in data in shape of line / parabola / sine etc with the corresponding "brushes"
- The controller lane lacks a few options, like sustain
- There seems to be no quick way to fill a selected key with notes of selected lenght for a selected period. In Cubase, when you draw with the line tool, it works as if you draw with your alt+mouse in eXT, except that the data is automatically divided into notes of the length selected in the quantization setting. Makes it very quick to draw in, say, a few bars of straight 16th hi-hat.
- No "glue"? It doesn't seem to be possible to combine two notes in eXT.
- I have to be missing something with this one, but after a quick try the velocity fade seems to always cover an entire midi-clip!? If this is true, it renders the tool practically unusable for my purposes, as I need to be able to select a group of notes and apply a velocity fade that affects only them. If this is indeed missing in eXT, it's a major issue for me. Also, as stated earlier, I'd like to do exponential velocity fades, and fade pitchbend data etc...
- Speaking of the composer, it's very limited when compared to that of SX. In Cubase I can for example quickly select a group of notes and reverse their playing order. I can 'delete only white keys' from a selected group of notes, or transpose only those notes that are not part of the key i'm working in from a region. I can also "double tempo" or "half tempo" a midi region so that the notes compress or expand accordingly.
- When I click on a midi clip on the sequencer timeline, the midi part should open either a.) centered on the spot I just clicked on or b.) centered on the spot where the vertical whatsitsname cursor is located at the time. An important workflow issue, especially when working with long clips.

This is what popped into my mind with quick fiddling. The midi editing in eXT is far from hopeless, but it is imo clearly inferior to that of SX.

[jens]

- No swing quantization possible?

you can do this with the offset-mode of the midi-groove-fx

[NicFit]

- Limited quantization features. Sure it's possible to do triplets and Tuplets and whatnot with the slice notes feature, but it's not as smooth as with Cubase.
- No swing quantization possible?

Yes more options are planned but the groove quantiser can get you swingin'

- Editing the controller lane data is clumsy. Data cannot be drawn in. In SX you can even draw in data in shape of line / parabola / sine etc with the corresponding "brushes"

For drawing CC data the envelope tracks would best serve this duty. And all these shapes and more can be accomplished. If you want to "brush" accross a controller lane in a MIDI part, it's best to first "fill" the part with the composer...set the quantise setting to 64ths and it will insert an event at every 64th and then you can "brash" accross the lane to freehand the curve. Also it may not be clear, but you can grab the divider and resize the controller lane if you need to.

- The controller lane lacks a few options, like sustain

You mean CC#64

- There seems to be no quick way to fill a selected key with notes of selected lenght for a selected period. In Cubase, when you draw with the line tool, it works as if you draw with your alt+mouse in eXT, except that the data is automatically divided into notes of the length selected in the quantization setting. Makes it very quick to draw in, say, a few bars of straight 16th hi-hat.

The composer does this.

- I have to be missing something with this one, but after a quick try the velocity fade seems to always cover an entire midi-clip!? If this is true, it renders the tool practically unusable for my purposes, as I need to be able to select a group of notes and apply a velocity fade that affects only them. If this is indeed missing in eXT, it's a major issue for me.

Yes you missed something....it only works on selected notes.

This is what popped into my mind with quick fiddling. The midi editing in eXT is far from hopeless, but it is imo clearly inferior to that of SX.

The fact that your comparing a $39 host/plugin to SX2 says something. ...Sure there are alot of things to improve, but considering what one person has done in less than 2 years the future looks good. Although I'm not naive enough to believe it will ever "catch up" to SX or whatever name they will be calling the next incarnation that users will be marketed into upgrading to.



nF

[zircon]

eXT does look great.. but why can't more piano rolls be like FL's? I haven't used eXT myself, but according to Rellik, the piano roll requires more effort than FL's to use. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would prefer any roll to FL's, honestly - you never need to use keyboard shortcuts, never need to switch tools, and everything previews as you're writing it. Couldn't ask for more.

I'm happy that eXT is getting a browser though. That was the other thing FL really had over everything else.

[_starcraft_]

eXT does look great.. but why can't more piano rolls be like FL's? I haven't used eXT myself, but according to Rellik, the piano roll requires more effort than FL's to use. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would prefer any roll to FL's, honestly - you never need to use keyboard shortcuts, never need to switch tools, and everything previews as you're writing it. Couldn't ask for more.

I'm happy that eXT is getting a browser though. That was the other thing FL really had over everything else.

nice one troll

fruity loops = no thanx!


and btw who the fuk is Rellik? why not try ext yourself.....the demo is fully functional apart from loading projects.

[snareSpanker]

eXT does look great.. but why can't more piano rolls be like FL's? I haven't used eXT myself, but according to Rellik, the piano roll requires more effort than FL's to use. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would prefer any roll to FL's, honestly - you never need to use keyboard shortcuts, never need to switch tools, and everything previews as you're writing it. Couldn't ask for more.

I'm happy that eXT is getting a browser though. That was the other thing FL really had over everything else.

nice one troll

fruity loops = no thanx!


and btw who the fuk is Rellik? why not try ext yourself.....the demo is fully functional apart from loading projects.

Troll?

I agree with zircon.. The fl pianoroll works wonders for me, and the xt one doest't suit me quite as good. Still have to use some shortcuts (in fl), though. At least Ctrl-drag to select multiple hits/tones.

[visa tapani]

- No swing quantization possible?

you can do this with the offset-mode of the midi-groove-fx

Oh yeah, so it seems. It appears to affect all the midi tracks in the sequencer, though, so that I can't for instance swing a small section of a single track...

You mean CC#64

The composer does this.

Ok, I stand corrected. Is it possible to make the composer fill, say, two bars with the pattern I feed it, or does it always fill the whole clip?

Yes you missed something....it only works on selected notes.

Well, here I can honestly say it does not work like this for me... I can't get it do anything else than a fade for the whole clip including all the notes in it. I wonder it this is a bug (I'm using the newest beta)?

The fact that your comparing a $39 host/plugin to SX2 says something.

Yeah, I know. I was mainly pointing all this out because this one dullard found it utterly inconceivable that midi-vice eXT might not be able to do all that SX2 can... But it's a phenomenal app no doubt, and getting better all the time.


Oh yeah, I forgot one thing about midi-editing in eXT which I can't get used to: the lack of instant preview of the notes I click in. I mean when I click notes in or transpose them, I'd like to hear them play. This bothers me a lot, but I know it has been requested already, and is probably down on some FR list...

[Rellik]

eXT does look great.. but why can't more piano rolls be like FL's? I haven't used eXT myself, but according to Rellik, the piano roll requires more effort than FL's to use. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would prefer any roll to FL's, honestly - you never need to use keyboard shortcuts, never need to switch tools, and everything previews as you're writing it. Couldn't ask for more.

I'm happy that eXT is getting a browser though. That was the other thing FL really had over everything else.

nice one troll

fruity loops = no thanx!


and btw who the fuk is Rellik? why not try ext yourself.....the demo is fully functional apart from loading projects.

Troll?

I agree with zircon.. The fl pianoroll works wonders for me, and the xt one doest't suit me quite as good. Still have to use some shortcuts (in fl), though. At least Ctrl-drag to select multiple hits/tones.

Yep.

See, what'd I tell you, eXT community? I'm not the only one who loves the FL piano roll. eXT has its own unique features, and is great to work with if you like working in the way it works, but I continue to advocate personalization in the MIDI editing field to help accomodate people of all working-styles. Some people would even prefer not to have note-audition; some even prefer the Alt/Dbl+Click note add to a Click note add; etc.

[Bunnyboy]

YIPPEEEEE!!!

A FLS vs EXT flame thread

IT IS TEH W00T!!!111!!11

[jorgen]

visa tapani, nice feedback, Id like to point out some differences

- No swing quantization possible?

eXT has real-time swing (user groove) that can be amount-modulated in real-time by MIDI cc. You can setup a modulation envelope track and make it fade in the swing...Each track has its own groove. You can even layer grooves on a track. Lets say you have one swing groove and one velocity groove and one note length (gate) groove, then you can use 3 midi controllers to change them in real-time...

- Editing the controller lane data is clumsy. Data cannot be drawn in. In SX you can even draw in data in shape of line / parabola / sine etc with the corresponding "brushes"

The only way is to use the composer. Drawing directly is coming soon and would be very handy. There is a fade in/out function but it works on the whole part....

- There seems to be no quick way to fill a selected key with notes of selected lenght for a selected period. In Cubase, when you draw with the line tool, it works as if you draw with your alt+mouse in eXT, except that the data is automatically divided into notes of the length selected in the quantization setting. Makes it very quick to draw in, say, a few bars of straight 16th hi-hat.

eXT composer can insert "pattern" fills. Very quick for inserting hihat patterns, BD patterns, bass or even chords. I does fill the whole part though...

- No "glue"? It doesn't seem to be possible to combine two notes in eXT.

Soneone suggested split and glue a week ago, I only finished "split selected notes in equal parts" for the last beta, glue is comin soon.

- I have to be missing something with this one, but after a quick try the velocity fade seems to always cover an entire midi-clip!? If this is true, it renders the tool practically unusable for my purposes, as I need to be able to select a group of notes and apply a velocity fade that affects only them. If this is indeed missing in eXT, it's a major issue for me. Also, as stated earlier, I'd like to do exponential velocity fades, and fade pitchbend data etc...

If you want to edit velocity of only a few notes, then select them first.

- Speaking of the composer, it's very limited when compared to that of SX. In Cubase I can for example quickly select a group of notes and reverse their playing order. I can 'delete only white keys' from a selected group of notes, or transpose only those notes that are not part of the key i'm working in from a region. I can also "double tempo" or "half tempo" a midi region so that the notes compress or expand accordingly.

Lots of nice stuff there, will end up in the composer soon. However, the composer can randomize basslines and sliced loops, which can be cool if you need some variations.

- When I click on a midi clip on the sequencer timeline, the midi part should open either a.) centered on the spot I just clicked on or b.) centered on the spot where the vertical whatsitsname cursor is located at the time. An important workflow issue, especially when working with long clips.

eXT open the editor and center around the first note in the part. Thats how I like it...

This is what popped into my mind with quick fiddling. The midi editing in eXT is far from hopeless, but it is imo clearly inferior to that of SX.

w00t

Rellik, you have had lots of nice suggestions for the Piano roll. Most of them are coming for sure

cheers
jorgen

[Wopelka]

YIPPEEEEE!!!

A FLS vs EXT flame thread

IT IS TEH W00T!!!111!!11

excuse me but i'm the living proof that it's possible to be a FL fanboy AND an eXT freak.