I hope the core of 2.0 is solid, that would be wonderful... I'm glad to hear that 1.3 is a solid release... I do like that core stuff you mention a lot, multi clip hybrid editing is forward thinking, I also like opening multiple docs... the plugin sandboxing has been a double edged sword for me, and I've had weirder crashes with it, like app crashes despite a plugin crash and I've also lost work in a corrupted state so I can't give a +1 on that feature, I love the concept of bounce in place, but I've had issues of it not bouncing the correct sound in place... Live 9 has been surprisingly stable considering very patchy releases in the past. I will say that I would be surprised if Live 10 didn't have better native modulators, there is a very good chance Live 10 is a big release for Ableton, it's possible that they have been redoing Live on a different dev branch since Live 8, it could have a completely new core.pdxindy wrote: You're right... bad choice of words... Ableton didn't move any functionality to M4L... but they stopped developing lots of core feature requests since it can be done in M4L. Seems like no chance to get a native LFO now.
Bitwig is only infrequently crashing for me these days. My experience of it is that the devs have made very good progress since 1.2 first came out. At that time it was too unreliable. Now it is usable and while it can still improve, I do not feel frustrated with it.
I'd say Live is a bit more solid... that is without M4L. But then I do not even have an LFO. With M4L added, I'll take Bitwig for stability. Also, because of the plugin sandboxing, I lose work more often in Live when there is a crash.
Live has way better devices overall. But the core DAW I much prefer Bitwig. Multi-clip editing, audio editing in a clip, groups in groups, clip automation is better, MPE support is huge for me (a big nothing in Live), hybrid tracks (allows bounce in place) and more.
Maybe you will be right that 2.0 will be bug ridden, but the argument can be made that they have greatly improved the core of the app and so what happened with 1.0 is not likely to repeat. Basically, we do not know and only trying the demo will show us. I have no opinion on how it will be and am waiting to see.
License model no way !!!
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humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
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- KVRAF
- 26941 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
What is the latest Bitwig version you have used? Bounce in place used to be a crap shoot... failing as often as it succeeded for me. It's been solid for a while now.humanbeingbeing wrote:
I hope the core of 2.0 is solid, that would be wonderful... I'm glad to hear that 1.3 is a solid release... I do like that core stuff you mention a lot, multi clip hybrid editing is forward thinking, I also like opening multiple docs... the plugin sandboxing has been a double edged sword for me, and I've had weirder crashes with it, like app crashes despite a plugin crash and I've also lost work in a corrupted state so I can't give a +1 on that feature, I love the concept of bounce in place, but I've had issues of it not bouncing the correct sound in place... Live 9 has been surprisingly stable considering very patchy releases in the past. I will say that I would be surprised if Live 10 didn't have better native modulators, there is a very good chance Live 10 is a big release for Ableton, it's possible that they have been redoing Live on a different dev branch since Live 8, it could have a completely new core.
I would be surprised if Live 10 did have better native modulators. It is possible they have shifted direction, but for some years now they have completely depended on M4L for that.
I'm interested to see what Live 10 brings, whenever it might arrive.
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humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
The last version I used was 1.3.1, it's been about 4/5 months since my last session with Bitwig. I have basically been firing it up maybe once a month since it came out... I try to make a typical track that I would make using the same techniques and plugins but it always ends up bombing out or slowing to a crawl... I notice with Bitwig is seems to get cumulatively bad.pdxindy wrote: What is the latest Bitwig version you have used? Bounce in place used to be a crap shoot... failing as often as it succeeded for me. It's been solid for a while now.
I would be surprised if Live 10 did have better native modulators. It is possible they have shifted direction, but for some years now they have completely depended on M4L for that.
I'm interested to see what Live 10 brings, whenever it might arrive.
as for Live 10, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, Live have this knack for missing the obvious but honestly, I'm not so into features as much as Im in to be able to get through a long session without trouble... the modulators in Bitwig 2 look great, but if it struggles still with large projects they're not practical... some folks may be willing to use Bitwig for musical phrases, but I want to work entirely in the box and I can do that with Ableton now.... wish Bitwig the best, expect the worst.
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- KVRAF
- 26941 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Btw, I think it is a good sign for the stability of Bitwig 2.0 that public beta testing is going to start soon and they already have set a release date of Feb. 28th 2017 for version 2. That means they are fairly confident of the stability to have already set a date.humanbeingbeing wrote:The last version I used was 1.3.1, it's been about 4/5 months since my last session with Bitwig. I have basically been firing it up maybe once a month since it came out... I try to make a typical track that I would make using the same techniques and plugins but it always ends up bombing out or slowing to a crawl... I notice with Bitwig is seems to get cumulatively bad.pdxindy wrote: What is the latest Bitwig version you have used? Bounce in place used to be a crap shoot... failing as often as it succeeded for me. It's been solid for a while now.
I would be surprised if Live 10 did have better native modulators. It is possible they have shifted direction, but for some years now they have completely depended on M4L for that.
I'm interested to see what Live 10 brings, whenever it might arrive.
as for Live 10, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, Live have this knack for missing the obvious but honestly, I'm not so into features as much as Im in to be able to get through a long session without trouble... the modulators in Bitwig 2 look great, but if it struggles still with large projects they're not practical... some folks may be willing to use Bitwig for musical phrases, but I want to work entirely in the box and I can do that with Ableton now.... wish Bitwig the best, expect the worst.
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 22 Jan, 2017
Wow, this thread got taken off the rails. Bitwig & Ableton are preferences no point in arguing which is better. I can do full production, mixing, & mastering in both daws no problem. But Ableton doesn't have a potentially shady subscription fee. I actually am hoping for the best in this sub fee because it sounds like a great idea. However, Bitwig needs to step up to the plate and answer questions about the subscription instead of hiding behind it, whether it's from new accounts or not. I created mine because I'm worried, and they are not helping.
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humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
It could mean they're confident but it was still in alpha less than 2 weeks ago... I would prefer testing to finish before they announce a release date... I actually got the opposite vibe from this.pdxindy wrote: Btw, I think it is a good sign for the stability of Bitwig 2.0 that public beta testing is going to start soon and they already have set a release date of Feb. 28th 2017 for version 2. That means they are fairly confident of the stability to have already set a date.
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humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
Ableton and Bitwig are direct competitors and they are similar to each other, when you opt for Bitwig you opt for it over Ableton, different if Ableton didn't exist, the subscription fee and it's value is relative to other software opportunities like Ableton Live.Tentacles wrote:Wow, this thread got taken off the rails. Bitwig & Ableton are preferences no point in arguing which is better. I can do full production, mixing, & mastering in both daws no problem. But Ableton doesn't have a potentially shady subscription fee. I actually am hoping for the best in this sub fee because it sounds like a great idea. However, Bitwig needs to step up to the plate and answer questions about the subscription instead of hiding behind it, whether it's from new accounts or not. I created mine because I'm worried, and they are not helping.
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- KVRAF
- 2393 posts since 29 Jun, 2005 from La La Land
Dom said that anyone with inquiries about the subscription plan can send an email to their sales support. If you are worried they can probably help you.Tentacles wrote:Wow, this thread got taken off the rails. Bitwig & Ableton are preferences no point in arguing which is better. I can do full production, mixing, & mastering in both daws no problem. But Ableton doesn't have a potentially shady subscription fee. I actually am hoping for the best in this sub fee because it sounds like a great idea. However, Bitwig needs to step up to the plate and answer questions about the subscription instead of hiding behind it, whether it's from new accounts or not. I created mine because I'm worried, and they are not helping.
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- KVRAF
- 4804 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO
No they do not actually. If you want to know more write them an email, as Dom has stated several times now.Tentacles wrote: Bitwig needs to step up to the plate and answer questions about the subscription instead of hiding behind it, whether it's from new accounts or not. I created mine because I'm worried, and they are not helping.
edit: Ah, Orbit already said it. Anyway..
JamWide - a cross-platform Ninjam client for DAWs
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- KVRian
- 912 posts since 1 Nov, 2012 from Berlin
That's obvious. And it gets blocked just as all your previous sock puppet accounts you created for it and all the ones you are about to create.Tentacles wrote: ...whether it's from new accounts or not. I created mine because I'm worried, and they are not helping.
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- KVRist
- 45 posts since 16 Jul, 2014
What exactly is confusing people so much about the licensing arrangement? It seems pretty straight forward to me: if you want updates, keep your subscription active. If you do not need/want updates, let it lapse until you do. Like it or not, what are they "hiding behind"?
The only questions people are asking about it is "why isn't it cheaper" and "why do I have to pay moar?"
From the Bitwig page:
What is so darn confusing?
The only questions people are asking about it is "why isn't it cheaper" and "why do I have to pay moar?"
From the Bitwig page:
Also from the Bitwig page:Can I continue using the software when my upgrade plan expires?
Yes, you can. This is not a subscription; you own a perpetual license. The upgrade plan is only required if you want access to the latest version, after the 12-month period that comes with your initial purchase has expired.
Does Bitwig Studio now come at an annual cost of the upgrade price?
No, you can wait to renew your license, until you discover a new feature you like in the latest version of Bitwig Studio - and then get back on board again.
https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/new-license-model.htmlIf anything is still unclear, we're more than happy to answer any questions, just drop us a line at http://www.bitwig.com/support.
What is so darn confusing?
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humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
Genuinely I do not see anyone confused on this thread, I think you'd have to be really quite dim to be confused by it. The title of thread is 'license model no way', if your real question is why do people have problem with the license model? you should read the other 40 or so pages. I do not think people believe Bitwig is hiding behind anything, maybe some people want to know why but I believe this thread is for voicing opinion on the subject.... I think you're confused as to what is going on here and I can't even find your thread quotes " ".Devogenes wrote:What exactly is confusing people so much about the licensing arrangement? It seems pretty straight forward to me: if you want updates, keep your subscription active. If you do not need/want updates, let it lapse until you do. Like it or not, what are they "hiding behind"?
The only questions people are asking about it is "why isn't it cheaper" and "why do I have to pay moar?"
From the Bitwig page:
Also from the Bitwig page:Can I continue using the software when my upgrade plan expires?
Yes, you can. This is not a subscription; you own a perpetual license. The upgrade plan is only required if you want access to the latest version, after the 12-month period that comes with your initial purchase has expired.
Does Bitwig Studio now come at an annual cost of the upgrade price?
No, you can wait to renew your license, until you discover a new feature you like in the latest version of Bitwig Studio - and then get back on board again.https://www.bitwig.com/en/17/new-license-model.htmlIf anything is still unclear, we're more than happy to answer any questions, just drop us a line at http://www.bitwig.com/support.
What is so darn confusing?
Those answers you quoted by the way are not as simple as you make out, I actually find them misleading, "The upgrade plan is only required if you want access to the latest version" - as in the latest version with bug fixes that you will absolutely want if not need, there has been some vague stepback answers given on this regarding an arrangement on the last month of your sub.. it'd be nice if those answers spoke to the nature of bug fixes rather than features because for me that's kinda the issue with this 'annual cost'.
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- KVRist
- 45 posts since 16 Jul, 2014
humanbeingbeing wrote: Genuinely I do not see anyone confused on this thread, I think you'd have to be really quite dim to be confused by it. The title of thread is 'license model no way', if your real question is why do people have problem with the license model? you should read the other 40 or so pages. I do not think people believe Bitwig is hiding behind anything, maybe some people want to know why but I believe this thread is for voicing opinion on the subject.... I think you're confused as to what is going on here and I can't even find your quotes " ".
Look up about 3 posts bud.-
humanbeingbeing humanbeingbeing https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=314144
- KVRist
- 390 posts since 10 Oct, 2013
did that still can't see it (?????) do you know what a quote is? or are you paraphrasing... your answers are useless.... and I'm not your "bud" <---- thats a quoteDevogenes wrote:humanbeingbeing wrote: Genuinely I do not see anyone confused on this thread, I think you'd have to be really quite dim to be confused by it. The title of thread is 'license model no way', if your real question is why do people have problem with the license model? you should read the other 40 or so pages. I do not think people believe Bitwig is hiding behind anything, maybe some people want to know why but I believe this thread is for voicing opinion on the subject.... I think you're confused as to what is going on here and I can't even find your quotes " ".