Gforce Oberheim OB-X

[zvenx]

Strange to have the Cutoff knob to the right and the Resonance knob to the left.
...

what?

yours doesn't look like that?
Cutoff to left, Resonance then Modulation?
rsp

[felis]

Are those Xform thingies modulation modifiers?

That's a good way to describe them if used on something already being modulated.
If something's not already being modulated, then they're modulators.
Click on any knob or button and if its name shows up on the X displays, you can use the XLFO or XADSR or both on them.
OB-X is a mighty fine piece of work.

[Odd Fella]

Strange to have the Cutoff knob to the right and the Resonance knob to the left.
...

what?

yours doesn't look like that?
Cutoff to left, Resonance then Modulation?
rsp

Sorry, was intended for the Charlatan thread, confused the two...

[Odd Fella]

Are those Xform thingies modulation modifiers?

That's a good way to describe them if used on something already being modulated.
If something's not already being modulated, then they're modulators.
Click on any knob or button and if its name shows up on the X displays, you can use the XLFO or XADSR or both on them.
OB-X is a mighty fine piece of work.

Same here, I posted in the wrong thread, I was talking about the Xform thingies in Charlatan, sorry...

[felis]

I guess you really are an Odd Fella.

[Odd Fella]

I guess you really are an Odd Fella.

Tell me about it

[Sound Author]

I have mixed feelings about the terminology used for the "S-Start" and "S-Time" stages of the X-ADSR. IMO this is more like an "ADDR" with attack, two decay stages (one of them with a starting point control) and a release stage. As far as I can tell, there's no ACTUAL sustain here. Even if it's decaying for 128 seconds, it's still decaying. So, "S-Time" is a second Decay parameter as far as I'm concerned. Alluding to the word "Sustain" is a little misleading...unless I'm wrong and there's an actually stationary sustain level I'm unaware of. I guess I'm splitting hairs but there's my hot take.

Also, I think they made a mistake in the manual describing the S-Time Slider as "definable between 256 beats (or 0 to 128 milliseconds, depending on the status of the sync button)..."

The maximum value of the (unsynced) S-Time Slider is 128 seconds, not 128 milliseconds.

[Sound Author]

I also think an envelope with two decay stages and a control for the starting point of the second Decay would be more useful if the ending point of the first Decay stage wasn't latched to the starting point of the second one. But it is, and because of that, I personally don't see the usefulness of the S-Start/S-Time thing all. I think it's just needlessly confusing and I would've been happy with a simple ADSR.

[Odd Fella]

I also think an envelope with two decay stages and a control for the starting point of the second Decay would be more useful if the ending point of the first Decay stage wasn't latched to the starting point of the second one. But it is, and because of that, I personally don't see the usefulness of the S-Start/S-Time thing all. I think it's just needlessly confusing and I would've been happy with a simple ADSR.

I thought the S-Start parameter was the level of the sustain, S-Time the duration of the sustain while keeping the key pressed. Basically, a second decay replacing the usual endless sustain in case release is not activated by releasing the key.

[Sound Author]

I also think an envelope with two decay stages and a control for the starting point of the second Decay would be more useful if the ending point of the first Decay stage wasn't latched to the starting point of the second one. But it is, and because of that, I personally don't see the usefulness of the S-Start/S-Time thing all. I think it's just needlessly confusing and I would've been happy with a simple ADSR.

I thought the S-Start parameter was the level of the sustain, S-Time the duration of the sustain while keeping the key pressed. Basically, a second decay replacing the usual endless sustain in case release is not activated by releasing the key.

I don't mean to be snippy but...if it's not "endless", then it's not sustain. Sustain means SUSTAIN. If it's decaying, even for several minutes, well, then that's a decay parameter.

[Odd Fella]

I also think an envelope with two decay stages and a control for the starting point of the second Decay would be more useful if the ending point of the first Decay stage wasn't latched to the starting point of the second one. But it is, and because of that, I personally don't see the usefulness of the S-Start/S-Time thing all. I think it's just needlessly confusing and I would've been happy with a simple ADSR.

I thought the S-Start parameter was the level of the sustain, S-Time the duration of the sustain while keeping the key pressed. Basically, a second decay replacing the usual endless sustain in case release is not activated by releasing the key.

I don't mean to be snippy but...if it's not "endless", then it's not sustain. Sustain means SUSTAIN. If it's decaying, even for several minutes, well, then that's a decay parameter.

In this case eternity lasts only 2 minutes

The S-Start parameter is bipolar, from -100 to +100%. Maybe they should add a center line marker for that slider travel.

That whole envelope reminds me of the auxiliary envelope in Retrologue 2. It was also confusing at first.

They should have added two normal ones instead.

[felis]

This is part of what the manual has to say about it:

"....The S stage of the X-ADSR is not a traditional sustain. It’s a 3rd transitional slope or
ramp from the S-Start position to the sustain level, as set by the main panel control.
S-Start is a percentage value set between -100% and 100%. When in a positive
position, the S stage will act as a second decay stage before you hear the sustain.
When set to a negative value, the S stage will act like a second attack stage, you will
hear the modified control duck below the main control level and come back up
towards the sustain stage...."

As far as I can tell, when using the XADSR to modify the attack, or decay stage of the main envelope, it does so before it gets to the sustain point set on that main envelope.
I've mainly been using an XADSR on the release stages of the main envelopes with excellent results.

[Sound Author]

I've mentioned this before on this thread, but I'm just trying to understand...

The cross modulation doesn't seem to be musically useful in any programming scenario. No matter how you cut it. Even if both oscillators are triangle waves. It's just dissonant chaos no mater what.

If this is how cross-mod sounded on the original OB-X...it just seems like a huge waste of parts and labor to include a feature that's practically useless...musically anyway.

Sure, you can create some really bizarre atonal sounds, but I can't imagine those kinds of sounds were much in demand. Who knows, maybe those sounds were in demand.

I'm not trying to be negative. For the most part, I love this synth. I'm just scratching my head trying to figure out how this cross-mod is useful in a musical context...and if it's not, why Tom Oberheim would even bother with a feature that basically has no musical use case.

I guess that's a bit of a hot take, but I really don't mean it that way.

[egbert101]

It was probably Oberheim's version of Sequential's Poly-Mod on the Prophet 5. I don't know, since I've never touched it, but it creates some familiar vintage sounds, so I'm learning.

[audiouser720]

It was probably Oberheim's version of Sequential's Poly-Mod on the Prophet 5. I don't know, since I've never touched it, but it creates some familiar vintage sounds, so I'm learning.

Nice avatar