Zebra3 Info

[EvilDragon]

Newsflash - not everyone prefers Cubase, nor do they want to switch to Cubase.

[rustman]

You're not paying attention again. C minus.

Edit:

[EvilDragon]

Depends if you wanted to say "switch" or "switched". If you said "switch", sounds like you're suggestion others to make the switch from Reaper to Cubase. If you wanted to say "switched", that would imply yourself. Would have been even better if you actually typed "I switched from Reaper to Cubase". Then I wouldn't even post anything.

[rustman]

That also applies to Stollmeister's comment regarding "switch to Reaper from Cubase..." To which I was replying with my reversed suggestion. I like Reaper alot, btw. I keep it current at all times.

[EvilDragon]

Ah, I see it now. Sorry.

[Stollmeister]

Just out of curiousity: What are the advantages of Cubase over Reaper? I made the switch from Cubase to Reaper many years ago. I felt that I got a better DAW for less money. That was many years ago so I'm sure things have changed. What does Cubase do better than Reaper?

This might be off topic, but since we won't see Zebra 3 in a long time we might as well chat about other things in the meantime.

[rustman]

Imho, Cubase might not have any big advantage over Reaper. Reaper is by far, the best bang for the buck, and gets constant fixes and updates. I just went through a period where I was trying multiple DAWs to find out what felt the best and was most intuitive to me. I wound up immersing myself in the how-to's of Cubase the most in the end, so I'm more comfortable with it now. I wish I could skin it like Reaper...or take snapshots of my mix states. Could have been that I figured I had better like it for what I payed. Also, a dummy (perhaps me) finds it easier to understand signal routing in Cubase, but then, I've learned a lot since I switched.

[Stollmeister]

Thanks for sharing Rustman!

[Shiek927]

Before, I would have asked that the workflow remain the same as much as possible. While sound-design is pretty universal, it nevertheless takes a noticeable amount of time to really get used to a synth before you can finally start to get really creative with it. I suppose it's not unlike a real instrument. Zebra2 has always had a very wonderful and intuitive workflow, despite the abundance of features, and hopefully will remain largely the same despite the updated modules.

...That's all what I *would* have said had I not started to use the "Zebra Redux" skin. There's no denying that it's literally sped up my workflow in Zebra2 because it consolidates so much onto a single screen, not unlike what you guys tried to do with Hive. It wasn't until I started using Redux that I realized just how many tabs and windows Zebra2 has, and how much that made it seem more like an effort than it needs to be. By moving the mod-matrix (especially) and other tabs to a single screen, whilst giving the important MSEG's and wavetables there own very large-screens that makes them easier to manipulate, the skin has truly made the workflow even better than it was before.

Hopefully Zebra3 will use this same Hive-like approach and limit the number of tabs and windows as much as possible, whilst giving the important stuff there own space.

This balance between simple Hive-like immediacy and abundance of features will hopefully extend to the filters and OSC FX. There's such a staggering amount of effects and filters, and while it truly is fun to explore them and have 'happy accidents', It can feel like I'm working blind sometimes because it's difficult to remember the character and effect of each individual filter and effect. If there was some sort of tiny description or label perhaps when you hover your mouse over an effect or filter that explains what the 'character' of the filter/effect is, that would actually make things *alot* easier because I wouldn't have to refer to the manual for the millionth time to remember what this effect is actually doing.

Zebra3 may also learn a thing or two from Xfer Serum. That synth literally has the best envelopes I've ever used, and I love how there is more than one way to modulate: whether it's using a mod-matrix or using drag n drop. It may not seem like a huge deal to just click a tab and use Zebra2's mod-matrix, but when I'm trying to work fast and keep the inspiration going, even something as clicking another tab or window suddenly feels like strenuous effort. This, as before, is why I enjoy ZebraRedux because it consolidates so much onto a single window.

Serum is also very visual and I honestly enjoy that. As before, I love the envelopes, and how you can clearly see the sound traveling through it. Making things more visual, obvious, and even a bit "idiot-proof" definitely pays off. The popularity and mentality behind Sylenth and Hive is the quick simplicity and ease-of-use -- there isn't an abundance of tabs or windows, so you never have to fight with the synth. Hopefully Zebra3 will be the same or even better. With regards to wavetables in general, I suppose it wouldn't help to look toward it in general, since it's bound to be the new kid on the block and Massive's de-facto successor - the same with other synths (perhaps NI Razor for additive?) and whatever form they excel at for inspiration.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure the sound with be incredible and be on-par with Diva and the new synths that have since been released. The wonderful part about Z2 is that it has a high-quality neutral sound: it can sound very full and retro, or very thin, rich and modern. Diva has an incredible sound, and I love how you can stack voices together and detune them individually -- it falters however once you start to go for thinner, more modern sounds. I've heard modern EDM and even film-score soundsets, but it's difficult to get away from the full vintage sound that it was obviously modeled after. Zebra2 doesn't have this problem and can go either way, and feels more like an construction kit: it's up to you to decide how you want it to sound like. Unfortunately, it's much easier to make a slew of bad sounds, whereas Diva, Hive, Sylenth, and many other (notably simpler) synths don't seem to have that. Perhaps this is, once more, due to the modular nature, but it can be easy to turn people away toward simpler synths that don't have as much long-term reward because of this. Zebra2 has a wonderful workflow where everything is laid out, but the sound in some sense needs to be the same way much more than it already is, so simple patches sound very effective and mix-worthy, and encouraging deeper-exploration.

I suppose it all, once again, comes back to making things simpler, so it's much more appealing to users who are just getting into sound-design for the first time, as well as more experienced users who are looking for a faster workflow. Unfortunately, as before, it's not as rewarding to new budding sound-designers because it doesn't have the same immediacy. Keeping things as visual (Serum, once again, is good inspiration), consolidated (Zebra-Redux, Hive and Sylenth are good examples), and honestly "idiot-proof" (Sylenth and Diva; simple UI's, and almost impossible to make a bad patch) as much as possible.Whether they just want to make some standard quick-and-dirty (but very good) dance-patches or evocative jaw-dropping textures, make the process as painless as possible.

That's infinitely more important than adding a dozen more effects or filters. Sometimes you just don't need all the bells and whistles, especially when they just get in your way.

[Coorec]

Very good post Shiek927. I do agree very much.

It was just recently that i discovered how much i like to work with "patched" Synths, which i can map to my midi controller in the same way like all other synths. Aka Cutoff always has the same knob and parameter number, etc.

Getting a fast (visual) idea about modulations in a patch is very nice as well.

In fact what i'd like most would be a series of Synths that look exactly the same for the main parts (Filters, Envelopes, LFO's, Modulations, Arp/Seq, FX) just changing the type of Osc (VA, Wavetables, FM, Samples, Supersaws, you name it).

Z3 could be the mother of this babies, like Z2 is to Zebralette.

[mcphable]

As a long-time owner of Zebra2 (5+ years), who recently picked up Satin and Presswerk, I have to say that I completely trust that Urs and the u-he team will put out an amazing revision of Zebra2 with Zebra3!!

That said, Shiek927 does have some good points:
1) simplicity while still having deep tweak-ability
2) some form of pop-up explanations of various items
3) visual appeal/feedback
4) making it a little more fool proof

Coming from 5+ years of Zebra2 experience, I have always been able to get decent sounds out of it mainly by using presets as a vague starting point, but honestly I have yet to master it. I too find myself reviewing the manual way too often! If you're just making minor adjustments to presets (twisting knobs), Zebra2 is plenty intuitive and sounds amazing - hence the reason I initially bought it. However, if you plan on starting from INIT and make Zebra2 show off, then you're looking at one of the biggest learning curves of the synths I've tried (no offense intended!); way too many options to be productive. I often find myself killing an hour or more in Zebra2 making a good sounding patch from scratch (pads/leads/basses for Indie Dance), and then get depressed when I pull up Spire or Massive and make something that sounds just as good in 10-15 minutes. The same timeframes apply when I start with the other synths and then duplicate in Zebra2.

So, I'd add one more wish list item to Zebra3, which as I understand, is u-he's flagship, do-it-all, synth:
1) better preset banks AND with helpful descriptions and adjustment recommendations (like in Satin & Presswerk) - I'd love to see preset banks for Analog Gear emulations (again like in Satin & Presswerk), preset banks with typical sounds for each of the popular Genres of electronic music (if for nothing other than to show how to quickly make bread and butter sounds, actually sound good), revised preset banks for Film scores/FX/drums/etc. The focus being on making a ton of Z3 worthy presets that show how good Z3 really is at making sounds you're likely to hear on famous analog gear or popular electronic music (for each of at least a few genres)/film/FX/etc... AND giving helpful descriptions and adjustment recommendations.

Thanks and I can't wait to upgrade to Zebra3!!

[Shiek927]

The weird part, whenever I get tired of Zebra and try to move to another synth, I end up coming back to it because I had already invested so much time into it. I nevertheless keep other synths close-by to see if I will transition to them instead; like I said, you probably don't need all the bells and whistles.

You DO eventually get so used to a synth, but it's as I said: it takes a very long time to truly get so used to it that you are able to get very creative with it. It's just like a real instrument.

What I have been doing lately that has been helpful, and essentially has been my de-facto method for learning, is simply reverse-engineering and than doing it myself. Loading up a patch, INIT on another instance, and than trying to replicate it as best as I can. I try my best not to peek and time myself to see how quickly I can work. The faster, more accurate, and less I peek, the higher I 'grade' myself.

Doing this throughout a whole slew of genres helps in self-teaching yourself to think outside the box and try out all sorts of modules in all sorts of ways you wouldn't before. Afterwards however, put aside the 'reference' patch and try it again on your own. You eventually build up 'templates' when you notice that some styles use the same things over and over (Chiptune in Z2, or perhaps in general, tends to consistently work well with the mod-mappers, MSEG's, decimation, and loads of square/triangle waves). Once you nail down a workflow for a specific style, things move faster: it's just a lot of trial-and-error until you do it, which is why I say Zebra2 is like a (Lego?) construction kit: you need to experiment until you have something that works the way you want it too.

It's a pretty simple method all things considered, and probably done by loads of people, but It's only recent that I started doing this and it's tangibly helped me learn a synth more than anything else.

The truth is, even barring "Zebra Redux", Zebra2 honestly already does have a very good workflow. It's not really the synth in a lot of ways that's at fault, so much as that sound-design is very hard XD.

[chilly7]

Newsflash - not everyone prefers Cubase, nor do they want to switch to Cubase.

+1

[Cyoon]

is it a zebra or daw thread, little confused.

[dayjob]

is it a zebra or daw thread, little confused.

Either way TLDR