Native Instruments file for insolvency...

[cron]

Yeah, the NI haters are very attracted to the unfortunate news and therefore also this thread.

Well if I've learned anything from this thread, it's that there's a small coterie of NI likers remaining in the year 2026. I suppose someone had to be buying the endless stream of Maschine expansions while long-time users watched the soul of the company rot off the vine in real time.

NI have about 1.5 Million active users, you probably find more than a handful that like their stuff, although I agree there has been way to much filler, there is still some great stuff being released for Kontakt and the 88 MK 3 is without a doubt the best midi controller I have used....more than happy with the way thewy work together for composing with NKS2.

FWIW I do like some of their stuff. Razor is great, Massive X could have been huge if it launched with a bit more polish, the hardware is apparently fantastic, but the company itself? We're all familiar with the VC death spiral where extracting immediate value is considered more important than long term health, but failing to translate 1.5 million active users into a viable business is on another level.

It's not so much that I hate NI or anything. Just worn down from watching the new NI's approach to running a business. Launching endless new products while genuinely iconic mainstays slowly drowned in tech debt and the like.

I recently got Scapeshift by Tim Exile for Reaktor and it's one of the most remarkable pieces of music software I've ever used. A truly absurd demonstration of what Reaktor can really do when pushed to the limit. Feels bittersweet booting it up now.

And, of course, I feel terrible for the staff who've done their best with the management they had. Hopefully they won't be in a dark place for too long.

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I'm not even an NI hater. Well, ok, I kinda am - but they really forced me into it.

For starters: I wouldn't be owning Komplete Ultimate if I was a genuine NI hater. And I bought into the Komplete universe pretty early already (20+ years ago, I think in 2004).
But ever since, this happened: 3 hardware units rendered trash (Rig Kontrol 2, Machine 1, Kore). One of my top 4 plugins of all times rendered semi-trash/dead (namely Battery). Some other plugins I really liked discontinued (Pro-53, partially FM7 (which I always prefered over FM8 for strange reasons), Spektral Delay, Intakt, B4II). Kontakt becoming a content thing rather than an inspiring tool to use for your own sampling adventures. Etc.
I couldn't even imagine my feelings if I was an avid Reaktor user.

So, whatever whomever might think of my comments, all the "vitriol" is well deserved. And I'm far from being the only person thinking that way.

[oobesan]

Fwiw, I'm not even an NI hater. Well, ok, I kinda am - but they really forced me into it.

For starters: I wouldn't be owning Komplete Ultimate if I was a genuine NI hater. And I bought into the Komplete universe pretty early already (20+ years ago, I think in 2004).
But ever since, this happened: 3 hardware units rendered trash (Rig Kontrol 2, Machine 1, Kore). One of my top 4 plugins of all times rendered semi-trash/dead (namely Battery). Some other plugins I really liked discontinued (Pro-53, partially FM7 (which I always prefered over FM8 for strange reasons), Spektral Delay, Intakt, B4II). Kontakt becoming a content thing rather than an inspiring tool to use for your own sampling adventures. Etc.
I couldn't even imagine my feelings if I was an avid Reaktor user.

So, whatever whomever might think of my comments, all the "vitriol" is well deserved. And I'm far from being the only person thinking that way.

You’re definitely not the only one who feels that way or saying those things. And you’re not wrong about your actual criticisms. What’s weird to me, however, is the level of seething hatred y’all have for this company. All companies have warts. All companies do things that follow the money rather than what users want. And yet, those companies do not have the cannon of ire aimed at them the way NI does. It’s on the same level as someone who has caught their lover cheating on them. That’s an unhealthy relationship with your products and mindset about a music production company. You should instead save that kind of passion for companies that are actively trying to destroy the world.

For the record, I have many of the same criticisms about NI’s products. I wish my S61 MK had sliders and a touchscreen. I wish Battery’s librarian management wasn’t ass (and yes, I will use that word here). I desperately want Reaktor to be supported and modernized. I want Kontakt to be more than a Player.

[legendCNCD]

I think it is Live's own DrumRack next for us if Battery4 vanishes someday

Unfortunately no option for me. Would also like to use Logic's Drum Machine Designer (which, regarding some aspects, is absolutely incredible), but quite unfortunately it's missing some functionality essential to me.
For the time being, it really looks like a kinda tie between TAL-Drum and Speedrum.

Thanks, will check those out too.

[legendCNCD]

Fwiw, I'm not even an NI hater. Well, ok, I kinda am - but they really forced me into it.

Spektral Delay, Intakt

Yeap. Just yesterday I was remembering how fun Spektral Delay was.

[kraster]

You called the product "ass"

I don't think I did. I said Reaktor would perform like "a**" on silicon Macs. And that was it.

which, of course ,is your prerogative but it seems based on your very particular critique.

In case of Battery 4, I only compared it to Battery 3 - and there's *proveable* dis-improvements coming with V4 (unless you actually happen to think things such as the recent preview function are actually better...).

Battery 4 added much better routing, much better time and pitch processing, better sample editing, better browsing and tagging, more effects, more workflow improvements, an updated UI and a bunch more stuff.

I'm not even denying that. Not at all. But yet, it took away some functionality that quite some folks seem to think of being an essential part of what they liked with B3.

The video you posted mentions nothing about these things and goes for mainly nitpicky stuff.

I don't think any of the things mentioned in the video qualifies as "nitpicky". And it doesn't have to showcase things where B4 might be better, it's recorded to showcase where it got quite a lot worse.

The only one that is meaningful is the lack of preview in place and that's certainly not enough to declare Battery 3 a winner

This is 100% subjective. For (likely plenty) of other folks, several things are as important.

and certainly not to declare it "ass"

You will have to show me where I did that. I said "it sucks". And I stand with that statement.

Besides, Battery is dead. Which, regarless of whether you prefer either version, is just plain sucking.

"B4II, Intakt, Spektral Delay, Kore (yes, it wasn't a plugin per se but an awsome concept), Battery 1-3 (4 sucks a**). "

This you?

Yes it is.

Nearly everything in that video is nitpicky and as I said the reason it's particularly nitpicky is that it gives the impression that nothing else improved. You could easily make a much more critical of Battery 3 vs 4 where 3 is vastly inferior. Tagging alone makes 4 more usable than 3 unless you like going through endless untagged samples.

[Sascha Franck]

You called the product "ass"

"B4II, Intakt, Spektral Delay, Kore (yes, it wasn't a plugin per se but an awsome concept), Battery 1-3 (4 sucks a**). "

This you?

Well, if you want, we can get into semantics. "Sucks ass" is a pretty different thing from "being (an) ass".

Nearly everything in that video is nitpicky and as I said the reason it's particularly nitpicky is that it gives the impression that nothing else improved. You could easily make a much more critical of Battery 3 vs 4 where 3 is vastly inferior. Tagging alone makes 4 more usable than 3 unless you like going through endless untagged samples.

That's all fine - and yet, my point stays valid: They have taken away several features that quite some people loved when going from 3 to 4.
And regardless how you put it, regardless how much you like other features, yes, that does suck quite some ass. And no developers actually taking care of their users would ever do such things. Especially in case there's no need to do so.

It's also pretty meaningless to make a comparison between "functionality lost" and "functionality won". That's just not how things work. It's completely stupid (and showing that the developer doesn't care about users) to take features out of an updated plugin in case these were features quite some people loved, regardless of how much features you've added otherwise.

[mi-os]

Yeah, the NI haters are very attracted to the unfortunate news and therefore also this thread.

Well if I've learned anything from this thread, it's that there's a small coterie of NI likers remaining in the year 2026.

This thread is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

[El°HYM]

This thread is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

[digitalboytn]

I’m hopeful that this somehow shakes the venture capital monkey off NI’s back and reduces the company to core team of passionate people with a plan to go forward that keeps the best of what NI offers and maintains everything else until they get to greener pastures.

[JO512]

I really hope we don't lose access to NI's existing software. I really like Reaktor, for one, and also have a pretty good collection of Kontakt libraries. It would really be a shame to lose Reaktor and Kontakt. I could let go easily of most of the rest. I like the sound of Massive X and some of its options, but I've never really liked using it. The interface is rather terrible. I also still like my Komplete Kontrol S61 MK1. It would suck to lose the Controller Editor and whatnot. Oh well. Sad if all that value that people have created gets destroyed.

[jamcat]

What’s weird to me, however, is the level of seething hatred y’all have for this company. All companies have warts. All companies do things that follow the money rather than what users want. And yet, those companies do not have the cannon of ire aimed at them the way NI does.

Perhaps because those other companies don’t completely mismanage their product line and make a shitshow of it every step of the way for years and years.

People criticize Waves a lot. They’re always being accused of just chasing dollars. But they’ve never discontinued anything. Ever.

You can still rely on a Waves plugin you bought back in 1996.

So there is a way to follow the money without completely shafting your users.

[Weasel-Boy]

I don't think this company is going to survive. Depending on source, the debt load dumped on NI from the VC's is reportedly upward of $300 million...possibly more. That's a huge ask of potential buyers.

[VitaminD]

It's all conjecture, which is fine. Since that is all we have. But I could see a scenario where the company jettisons a lot of lower performing and legacy products to focus on a few key items that are largely profitable. So even if NI does survive the storm, it might be a much leaner version of itself.

That, or creditors peel parts of the product lineup away as collateral? I'm not sure how it works but think there is a higher plausibility of NI (as we know it) not being the same after this has concluded than otherwise. That is, I'd be surprised if NI looks the same this time in a year from now.

[jamcat]

Plugin Alliance has always been quite profitable and, unlike iZotope or Native Instruments, still retains a lot of value as a brand. Perhaps Dirk Ulrich will end up owning Plugin Alliance and Brainworx again.