Why do I feel uncomfortable doing something else than 4/4?

[jancivil]

I'm a stickler for peace.

Again... Peace, dude.

peace

[justin3am]

Even when I use weird polyrhytms I perfer to do so in 4/4 time simply because mathematically it works out very well. Intervals of 12, 20, 28 or 36 16th notes corespond to 3/4, 5/4, 7/4, and 9/4 (respectively) very easily. I can do tempo changes without automation the same way, if I treat six 16th notes as a 1/4 note at 128BPM, all of a sudden I'm at 96BPM and if you use triplets to transition from one tempo to the next, the change feels very natural to the listener.

Interesting. Have you ever done renaissance / early baroque music? That sort of thing happens there all the time. A piece will start in 4, then continue in 3 where a bar of 3/4 is the same length as half a bar of 4/4, then switch back to 4/4 with a bar equal to 2 bars of 3/4 time, et cetera.

Of course they'll typically mix it up, so it's not quite as simple. For instance, going from 3/4 to 4/4, where the bar length stays the same, the music will often then go into 3/2 at the end of the 3/4 section, so you go from playing half notes in 3/2 to half notes in 4/4, but they change speed.

Fun stuff.

Victor.

I've never played renaissance / early baroque music, but it is some of my favorite music to listen to. I listen to a good deal of Chopin everyday!

I typicaly do these kinds of changes in my music. Speeding the tempo this way creates a sense of urgency. I ocasionally switch time signatures this was to creat some lop-sided movement but I generally don't hear music in odd time signatures so I don't try to force it.

[jancivil]

Interesting. Have you ever done renaissance / early baroque music? That sort of thing happens there all the time. A piece will start in 4, then continue in 3 where a bar of 3/4 is the same length as half a bar of 4/4, then switch back to 4/4 with a bar equal to 2 bars of 3/4 time, et cetera.

Of course they'll typically mix it up, so it's not quite as simple. For instance, going from 3/4 to 4/4, where the bar length stays the same, the music will often then go into 3/2 at the end of the 3/4 section, so you go from playing half notes in 3/2 to half notes in 4/4, but they change speed.

Fun stuff.

I've never played renaissance / early baroque music, but it is some of my favorite music to listen to. I listen to a good deal of Chopin everyday!

I typically do these kinds of changes in my music. Speeding the tempo this way creates a sense of urgency.

Bob Wills insisted the Texas Playboys accelerate at some point in every number, because 'it gets the dancers blood a-boilin' -

though he probably didn't use precise metric modulations

I hope your seque from 'renaissance / early baroque' to 'Chopin' is a nudge-nudge wink-wink sort of thing

Chopin came along several centuries later than that practice period, just in case

I rarely preconceive in terms of this or that meter. When I do, it's something like: I start with something that appears regular, straight beat, as if I'm 'in 4/4', but then I look at it and find out what it actually is;

I am thinking of an etude sort of thing which does limit to being SCORED in 4/4 or 4/2 or 2/2, but the point is to elasticize it by crossing it with 9s and 15s and crossing bar lines as if they don't exist; all of that's strictly from conventions, anyhoo.

Indian Tala is far far more subtle in terms of thinking about time and metrics..

[Amberience]

Feel the groove, f**k the numbers.

[jancivil]

fight the pipe, pray for slack

[superddman]

I also find that 4/4 just feels natural. However, I've heard some cool electronic music done in other signatures. One example is BT's Binary Universe.

[Art Noir]

Why is it difficult for me (and probably some others) to conceive something other than 4/4?

Listen to music with odd measures:
The Stranglers' "Golden Brown" has some 4/4 among 3/4.
Peter Gabriel "Solesbury Hill" [7/4]
Sting "Straight to my Heart" [7/8]
also many old songs from Genesis

and "Dark Temple" on my myspace [7/8]:
http://www.myspace.com/riontra

Try clapping your hands with the beat until you feel comfortable, until you don't have to count anymore. It's a matter of practice and geeting used to.

[inphinity]

im with ya on the 4/4..im not used to hearing anything else

[Spe3D]

My host opens with 4/4 (well 4/8 coz I changed it, not that it makes any difference ) and 140 bpm - I sometimes go as low as 80 bpm - I tend to render out stuff as loops as different bpm and beats/bar - then put them together, sometimes I change the tempo a few times through the track with the different beats merging together - while all this is going on I put in synth stuff = total racket, but fun

[Lotuzia]

4/4 is both the simplest beat and the ultra dominant signature in commercial music.

Like Pavlov dogs we just reproduce what we have been conditionned to learn.

When Bartok came in eastern european countries first (Where all folk and traditionnal music used to be in assymetric beats like 7/8, 11/8 aso) he said in his journal : Its like 4/4 but played faster. Then he realized what these special metrics where more precisely. And began to make use of them.

I used to play with a Hungarian Guy during several years, making covers of Rnb or jazz standards in 7/8 or 9/8 or else. Its just a matter of getting used to it. Your have to learn the specific pulsations, then you have to feel it,then you have to make it breathe and live. Was really fun, and indeed sometimes, ... it just grooved. (See Lazlo Schiffrin's music for example of such beats transposed in modern genres)

So feeling unconfortable playing something else than 4/4 is perfectly natural. Like playing only Binary rythms is also perfectly natural. That is, natural if you're not curious and don't want to explore others kinds of music.

This said beeing confortable is also a pleasure in music, and tons of talented artists have been unable to play in another style that the one they were confortable with (Think Blues for example, and a lot of folk based music)

LtZ

[beboop]

I just picked up the John McLaughlin 'Gateway To Rhythm' DVD -- it's an instructional video on konokol, the Indian counting system.

It was a little startling when I first put the disc in, the opening pre-menu sequence is, well, beyond cheesy -- konokol syllables flying around a rotating starfield, accompanied by filter sweeps. It looks like an Amiga demo from '89 -- or maybe K-Tel Presents Konokol Greatest Hits.

But then you get to the content. This isn't a review, there's probably a year, or years, of study to be had from this disc, and I've just started. The content is excellent.

There's no mention of this on the packaging I could see, but all the exercises are also on the disc in standard notation as .pdf files.

so, cheesy DVD production values, splendid content. I'd suggest watching the 'bonus' selection first to get the big picture -- it's a choir of maybe 10-12 year old Indian percussion students performing an extended konokol song. Nothing I could say about this, you just gotta see it.

[bugland]

This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z84CnmymUI

[Polite Company]

I must be a minority, half the stuff I write comes out in 3/4 (or 6/8).

[Tony Ostinato]

i didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if anyone mentioned this but guys who can groove in assymetrical meters are rare,

probably the best was the don ellis orchestra.

back in the 60s everyone tried, rolling stones did a few tunes that had 5/4 bars in them, but always isolated, pink floyd did a little.

all the jazz rock bands did a little

nowadays its very rare, sting does a few.


anyone who can pull it off nice and smooth is impressive. still think don ellis was the best at it.

[beboop]

This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z84CnmymUI

dial-up here, so no youtube for me. But yeah, that'd have to be the one.

There's another extended performance on the disc, a duet with McLaughlin and the konokol instructor (whose name I won't attempt to spell without looking it up).

great disc -- mute the volume until the menu sequence ends, and all is bliss