New development perspectives.

[glokraw]

- What is the 'jucetice' project?

AFAIR its a linux project to port open source win vst plugins to native linux vst from the little i know through being a XT2 user,


http://www.anticore.org/jucetice/?cat=16

its come a long way since i last tinkered with linux,

but alas it seems i will be staying a Microslave

although i do have Ubuntu Studio installed on my DAW as a 2'nd boot but i cant for the life of me work out how to upgrade the alsa to the one that supports the E-MU1820m

being dyslexic most things you cant do with mouse clicks confuse me

Subz

Hi, I think alsa versions 1.5xxx and newer kernels have basic e-mu support. Also, the alsa-firmware package may be needed. You may need to use synaptic, with its menu options, and add a debian 'testing' or 'experimental' repository to get these installed, or get .rpm files for Mandriva, fedora, suse etc, and convert them using the alien command
alien -i alsa-firmware.xxx.rpm
you should then have a matching alsa-dirmware.xxx.deb file in the same folder, which can be installed with
dpkg -i /home/djsubject/alsa-firmware.xxx.deb etc
if alien -i somehow forgot to install it.

Start the computer with the e-mu unplugged, type the command lsmod, and
note the file size, and any sound-related modules. Plug the e-mu in, and repeat the command, noting any differences. Then reboot with the e-mu still in, and compare a third time. This will let you know if and when the kernel is recognizing the card. And new kernels hold new alsa goodies sometimes, so do update. Having the kernel-source, build-essentials, and newest gcc, libc6 etc
installed will be needed if it turns out you must compile something, but hopefully not.
3 cheers for friday!

[Paulie Phonick]

- It is not Zyn finally, because you plan to release it under a complete new name (and synth project as you say)?

It is Zyn, but i like to divide this from the Zyn project itself since it is a subpart of it, taking only what i like most of the core synth.

Would you care to elaborate a bit kraken? Which parts of Zyn will be included in Capsaicin (or which will not, if that list is shorter)? Will the sound quality and sonic capabilities be much different from the original Zyn?

[MaliceX]

Nevertheless, damn I can't wait to see the mockups.

[boneless]

My concern is that further development of ZynAddSubFx will neglect the Linux platform. I understand that Windows and Mac OS have a much greater user base than Linux, but I think that putting Linux in second place would be such a pity. I know that the source is platform-independent if you use VSTGUI, for example, but AFAIK VSTGUI is not that stable, isn't there another framework that would easily interface in Windows and Linux, while being sufficiently stable in Linux (and/or BSD)?
If I were able to code anything, I'd put some effort in it, but alas, I am only a Linux/Zyn enthusiast

[Paulie Phonick]

isn't there another framework that would easily interface in Windows and Linux, while being sufficiently stable in Linux (and/or BSD)?

Aforementioned JUCE could fit. I have no idea how stable it is under Linux, but kraken's example indicates that it can be used.

[Rock Hardbuns]

Kraken ported two of my juce synths to linux and they seem stable. Well, the synth are a bit unfinished, but the juce bits are solid as far as I can tell.

JOST and Vex even got a bit of a write up in Linux Journal:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1005720

Also, for a bit of shameless self promotion: I made a "simplest possible" PAD synth implementation, which can be found in the bundle here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210766

[dreaddd]

seriously...all this Zyn Resurrection Movement is a hell of good news
caaaant wait

Peace out

[MaliceX]

To be honest, I don't see why anyone should be interested to supporting Linux if such isn't planning to support other platforms in the first place?

Anywho, other than geeks and network admins, who uses Linux for a living?

[/flamebait ]

In all seriousness, the concerns raised for this project to be "truly platform-independent" have some valid points. VSTGUI is alternative to the official Steinberg SDK (which is Windows-only as far as I know).

....what about SDL?

[arakula]

VSTGUI is alternative to the official Steinberg SDK (which is Windows-only as far as I know).

Don't think so. VSTGUI comes in two versions - the one included with the VST SDK, and the one on SourceForge. Both are multiplatform. And the VST SDK is multiplatform, too.

[MaliceX]

VSTGUI is alternative to the official Steinberg SDK (which is Windows-only as far as I know).

Don't think so. VSTGUI comes in two versions - the one included with the VST SDK, and the one on SourceForge. Both are multiplatform. And the VST SDK is multiplatform, too.

I was referring to Steinberg's VST SDK being Windows-only, but if I'm wrong anyway, thanks.

[folderol]

At one time you could get away with single platform software, but now I think it would be software suicide to do so. Also, while I appreciate the earlier comment about Linux was made in fun, I have noticed a definite drift in that direction for DAWs. I know of several embedded Linux units now, and guess what - Zyn. is in all of them!

[krakengore]

Would you care to elaborate a bit kraken? Which parts of Zyn will be included in Capsaicin (or which will not, if that list is shorter)? Will the sound quality and sonic capabilities be much different from the original Zyn?

capsaicin features:

global:
16 parts with mixer (you don't find it in zyn)
assignable sliders in mixer page (you don't find it in zyn)

voice:
poly-mono selector
4 fixed additive zyn oscillators with X-Y new mixer you don't find in zyn (vector synthesisis) and an editor for freqquancies and phases.
1 amplitude envelope
1 tone envelope
1 zyn multimode filter with envelope
1 effect section chorus > distortion > 4 band eq > delay
parameter automation support (you don't find in zyn)

To be honest, I don't see why anyone should be interested to supporting Linux

me and a lot of other musician out there. anyway my efforts are going in the cross platform direction thanx to JUCE, so if someone that wants to support win/mac build can take my projects and do a straight recompile (or the like, depending on the project).

[folderol]

Sounds very interesting so far.

Zyn (2.21) has issues with RT. I know someone was working on that. Does your development use the synth engine in a way that avoids this problem?

Are you intending to eventually include the sub and pad synth sections?

How well do you hope to support existing voice patches? I use Zyn for almost all my work so I'm quite paranoid about my patches sounding exactly the way I want them.

My 'multisynth' voice actually uses all three synth engines and a couple of overall effects. I would hate to lose this.

[matterblue]

My concern is that further development of ZynAddSubFx will neglect the Linux platform. I understand that Windows and Mac OS have a much greater user base than Linux, but I think that putting Linux in second place would be such a pity. I know that the source is platform-independent if you use VSTGUI, for example, but AFAIK VSTGUI is not that stable, isn't there another framework that would easily interface in Windows and Linux, while being sufficiently stable in Linux (and/or BSD)?
If I were able to code anything, I'd put some effort in it, but alas, I am only a Linux/Zyn enthusiast

Neglect the Linux platform?
Zyn (and Paul) obviously neglected all other platforms somehow decently in the past.
Zyn is running on Linux since 2002!

"AFAIK VSTGUI is not that stable" ???
Allow me to ask from where you got that information?
VSTGUI is stable enougth to run on nearly every professional music production system. Period. Probably Linux is instable... *lol*

I am NOT a Linux hater. But it is more than hassle to productively develop on Linux. It may be easyly possible to build something on a particular machine, but that gives absolutely NO guaranty, that the same code runs on another Linux machine. Linux is a dependency hell! Not exactly an eldorado for developers (my very personal opinion).

But Linux is UNIX. And Mac is UNIX too.
The difference is, that Mac is stable and development on Mac makes alot of fun. Really! If something compiles on Linux, so it compiles on Mac with the UNIX build environment too. That's not the case with Windows however.

I do not understand your fears. Because my intent is to be as portable as even possible with all my planning. So I do not pin the VSTGUI framework on my knees.
If JUCE would be not so rather ugly in my eyes and would have more native support for instrumentation widgets (knobs, sliders, digits and so on), then my decision would be quite clear. But..

I am also a big fan of the FLTK. Therefore I do not want to completely neglect FLTK with the Zyn port. This means it is easier to integrate VSTGUI into FLTK, than to completely rewrite the GUI with JUCE.

---

[djsubject]

My concern is that further development of ZynAddSubFx will neglect the Linux platform. I understand that Windows and Mac OS have a much greater user base than Linux, but I think that putting Linux in second place would be such a pity. I know that the source is platform-independent if you use VSTGUI, for example, but AFAIK VSTGUI is not that stable, isn't there another framework that would easily interface in Windows and Linux, while being sufficiently stable in Linux (and/or BSD)?
If I were able to code anything, I'd put some effort in it, but alas, I am only a Linux/Zyn enthusiast

Neglect the Linux platform?
Zyn (and Paul) obviously neglected all other platforms somehow decently in the past.
Zyn is running on Linux since 2002!

"AFAIK VSTGUI is not that stable" ???
Allow me to ask from where you got that information?
VSTGUI is stable enougth to run on nearly every professional music production system. Period. Probably Linux is instable... *lol*

I am NOT a Linux hater. But it is more than hassle to productively develop on Linux. It may be easyly possible to build something on a particular machine, but that gives absolutely NO guaranty, that the same code runs on another Linux machine. Linux is a dependency hell! Not exactly an eldorado for developers (my very personal opinion).

But Linux is UNIX. And Mac is UNIX too.
The difference is, that Mac is stable and development on Mac makes alot of fun. Really! If something compiles on Linux, so it compiles on Mac with the UNIX build environment too. That's not the case with Windows however.

I do not understand your fears. Because my intent is to be as portable as even possible with all my planning. So I do not pin the VSTGUI framework on my knees.
If JUCE would be not so rather ugly in my eyes and would have more native support for instrumentation widgets (knobs, sliders, digits and so on), then my decision would be quite clear. But..

I am also a big fan of the FLTK. Therefore I do not want to completely neglect FLTK with the Zyn port. This means it is easier to integrate VSTGUI into FLTK, than to completely rewrite the GUI with JUCE.

---

just wanted you to know that i am most grateful for your works on zyn & other platforms!!!



Subz